Aqua One Soda Stream Flourish Excell Sera Co2 Tablets

[MicB]

Didn't know if to put this here or make an article

This is my experience of different methods, your results may differ. You accept these technics at you own risk. I can not be held accountable for any damage or injury you may experience.

Aqua one Soda Stream myth busted, Flourish Excel, Sera Co2 Tablets, DIY Co2

I have tried some of the more common approaches to maintaining a planted aquarium. While these do keep plants alive they are well short of the vibrant rich greens you see in books and the Internet. I have presently installed CO2 using a soda stream bottle in an Aqua One AR850.

One of the not plant friendly features of the AR series is the wet dry filter up in the hood. This has a tendency to remove co2 from the water because of the aeration it receives on its journey back to the tank. They are nice tanks with minimal clutter in the tank so the amount of co2 required to maintain a suitable level for the plants was always going to be higher than an internal filter system. But there are ways to reduce the agitation of water as discussed later. Lighting in these tanks is minimal also for planted tanks and may have impact on the effectiveness of the different products I tried

When I brought a plant it would never look as good as the day I brought it. The lower leaves would get spots of alga then holes and look crap. Parts of leaves would hang off the plant in the current and it would totally distract from the concept of fresh growth and an interactive growing habitats for the fish.

I like many others I tried DIY Co2, I never got a good run, only peaking in the zone for 2 to 3 days and running out soon after.

Later brought a Hagen unit as I thought the temp fluctuations from day to night might be impairing the yeast production. These units have a thick wall cylinder and are well insulated but again I did not get the life expectancy that the makers claimed. The time to get each batch up and running and the general time involved for the maintenance of DIY was frustrating.

I tried Flourish Excell and while this does a better job than DIY CO2 in my aquarium, growth is still slow and alga does form on the slow growing plants. Internode distance is bigger but I find a lot of roots also at these points. $29.00/250ml - 5ml/day =50days -$0.58 /day = $17.40/month

I tried the Sera Co2 tablet system for 6 months I don’t think the CO2 had much effect but rather the minerals that are in the tablet that are released at the same time. I could go sometimes several scheduled applications and not put a pill in and the plants maintained their condition. The Co2 disappeared usually within 4 hours and I was only treating every second day so very little Co2 was contributing to the growth of the plants. $13.00/20pills I think recommended for my tank 165l is 1 per day so $20/month.

So the question we all ask and search the net for is how much to run C02 bottles and how do you do it?

I calculated I would use 2 soda stream bottles per month so the cost would be $20 for a C02 system and all the benefits of Co2 Just have to get a reg and needle valve

I received a quote from Boc with a monthly charge of $10 and a gas charge of $26 for a D size Bottle which holds 2.24kg of Co2 ( 7.46 soda stream bottles) $ 10 + 7 gas /month and a reg and needle valve.

So we get to the regulator costs. I see quotes on the net for about $150 for a normal gas bottle type reg.

Many aquarists in Holland use soda stream bottles so it must be feasible. I got my reg for a soda stream bottle from ToolsOnline.co.nz for $75 brand new. They use them on soda stream bottles for welding . It has good pressure control range. There is not a gauge on it, that is the only problem.

I have a quote for a swaglock(NZ) for needle valve of $110 this is the B-SS6 instead of the B-SS4 many USA uses use. The BSS6 is for 6mm hose which is the Sera C02 hose size rather than the US 1/4inch hose. I read somewhere someone used a radio control plane needle valve. I ordered an ASP remote needle valve from Galtech.Co.Nz. Cost $20 to try before spending $110 on the swaglock system. The needle valve works but does not have good control I find setting to closed and using the reg to change the rate of flow is best. If you open the needle valve one click it just floods the reactor. So while it does work it does not have the control that others remark about the swagelock. I have to tie the Co2 lines on the remote needle valve also otherwise it leaks around the hose. These fittings are designed for a smaller hose. I use metal bag ties and has worked till now. Could still be a place of leakage around the needle assembly although placing in water to find bubbles seems pretty good at the moment. So I think I will go to the correct needle valve shortly.

I am using a sera reactor to bubble the Co2 into the tank at the rate of 30bubbles per 25 secs. I have also reduced the water agitation by placing a large piece of polystyrene ¾ the size of the outlet section of the filter to reduce the bubbles on the tank inlet. I can hold my polystyrene over the outlet and let the water build up when I let it go the water can not hold the polystyrene down and it pops up so it should not overflow the system if any thing goes wrong. Others have tried changing the flow down the outlet using straws and pipe but this also reduces the volume of water that can get down the outlet. The water supply for the reactor I drilled the last hole of the filter spray bar big enough to screw a garden spray fitting (300mm extension to hose connector) and connected some air line tubing ran it down the overflow on the outlet and to the reactor. I also modified the reactor and put an another threaded connector on top of it. The sera reactor is not suitable for drilling it is very brittle so if you can get a hose to fit the better.

I have brought 2 soda stream bottles of trade me so I have a spare all the time $25 inc postage. I weigh the bottle and reg each morning and am using approx 17 grams of Co2 per day based on 10 days usage. A soda stream bottle has 300 grams of C02 liquid. Based on this I will get 17.5 days of gas per bottle. The weight combined with the reg is 1.6kg so when it gets to 1.4kg I will be getting low if not out of gas.

You do loose a small amount of gas putting the reg on because of the design. As it screws on it depresses the pin on the bottle so the last ¼ to ½ turn requires a quick twist using a spanner. I put the bottle in the vice to hold the bottle. Wear gloves and safety glasses. Co2 escaping under pressure is very cold and ice will form around the leaking area.

I have noticed improvements in my plants that I have not experienced before using other methods. My plant knowledge is not great I have 3 basic types – Green, Red and Dead.

My plants do not pearl!

I have had a half-dead piece of what I think is Java fern. This is the main plant that shows signs of activity. If I look under the leaves there are many small bubbles of O2. There appears a new growth coming of the main stalk looks like a Punga frond.

I have Difformus these stalks are now 3 – 4 times thicker on the new growth and the internodes appear to be closer together than using flourish. I have a small plant that was basically dead it was covered in algae, scanky dead parts, its about 50mm diameter. It is twice the as tall in ten days and has shot a spike out with new roots 75mm away. I have two crypts that are producing a new left about each 3 days.

I am using a C02 indicator to assess the Co2 content in the tank

I though that although the filter does release co2, being enclosed it may re enter the water being confined in the filter area. I light a match and placed in the filter area but it was not put out so maybe not much is being released

For what appears to be the same monthly cost I am getting results I have never experienced before.

Volume in a soda stream bottle

300grams Co2

C02 = 44 grams a mole

300/44 = 6.81 moles

1 mole of gas = 22.4 litres of gas

6.81 x 22.4 = 152 litres of gas

So I am injecting 152/17 = 8.9litres per 24 hours

Soda stream bottles come in 3 sizes. The common size and smallest is the 30l. This makes 30 litres of drink not 30 litres of gas. The 40l have a different size thread and are sold at the warehouse for the machine that they sell. See the soda stream site. Co.nz.

So if I use a solenoid I could cut my gas cost in half and finally get some payback $10/month. It would require a test to see the diffusion rate of Co2 out of the water and back in each day. May be one of those things to just leave running non-stop. My Co2 indicator is spot on first thing in the morning and a bit bluer later in the day.

Cheers Mike

[MicB]

My first bottle ran out on 29/8/06. So it lasted 15 days which is what I expected. I was experimenting with different flow rates so may get a bit more out of this one now I have some experience with flow adjustments.

When putting the reg on this bottle the brass fitting on the bottle started turning so I will use a 22mm ring spanner also for holding this fitting when tightening up from now on. I did not get the full 300 grams of gas from the bottle I was 35 grams short (2 days worth).I dont think I lost that much putting the reg on! The starting weight of my new bottle was 10 grams under the stamped starting weight. You have to weight each bottle before you start as there appear to be several different bottle specs(tare weight .91kg and 1.2kg) both have 300 grams of gas though.

Plants look good

Cheers

[MicB]

On to my th9ird bottle lasting 14/15 days. I am only running 1 bubble per minute the co2 indictor is not in the green but my PH is 7.1 ish. The plants are happy. My java fern has some burn marks on its leaves(Holes). Under the best leaf is 6 java roots so I have offspring on the fern. I am pruning once a week the faster plants

[suphew]

Burn like holes in the leaves is a sign of a lack of a mineral, from memory potassium, but there are plently of charts on the net that will tell you. I posted one on the plants section a year or so ago, you might be able to find it.

[evilknieval69]

I am only running 1 bubble per minute the co2 ...

Are you actualy only running one bubble per minute or do you mean second??

[MicB]

Ops 1 per second as you would expect

Cheers

[Dasher]

Have you looked at using a Sodastream Evolution gas bottle? They use a Alco2jet 100 885g cylinder of CO2, that makes 100 litres of the soda stream. These are almost 3 times the capacity of your 300gram cylinder. Not sure if the fitting is the same for the regulator, but will try and find out.

[fishboi]

Have you looked at using a Sodastream Evolution gas bottle? They use a Alco2jet 100 885g cylinder of CO2, that makes 100 litres of the soda stream. These are almost 3 times the capacity of your 300gram cylinder. Not sure if the fitting is the same for the regulator, but will try and find out.

yep fitting are all the same just bigger bottle. sold my to matthew just last week and he was already running one the same size.

[SAFFABOY]

so what are we looking at cost wise to set up a system like this?Also what are the on-going costs of the system.

[jim r]

where would I get a sodastream evolution from ?

cheers jim.

[SpidersWeb]

so what are we looking at cost wise to set up a system like this?Also what are the on-going costs of the system.

~$200 including a diffuser, bottle, reg, pipe at a guess

and your local supermarket will give you a replacement Sodastream bottle for $10.

Also remember you dont need CO2, so if you can't afford it one fortnight for some reason, you dont have to worry about it, so there is no commitment.

Seems like the perfect half-way point between yeast in a bottle and the big compressed systems.

[Dasher]

where would I get a sodastream evolution from ?

cheers jim.

If you buy one new - they are $130ish from Noel Leeming, but I just picked up a used one on Trademe for $20. As I am only after the gas tank that was a good price. Bottles to look for are the Alco2jet Gas bottles they hold 885gram CO2. Ask before buying to confirm the larger gas cynlinder is still in the unit, as some people replace them with the 30litre ones cos they are cheaper to fill.

As for filling - forget about taking it to get a replacement sodastream refill each time. It will cost way more than needed. Go to a Fire Extinguisher refiller. If in Auckland try Actron in 101 Beaumont Street. It will cost a fraction of the swap out system, they have the needed adapters to fill these bottles. Note: Keep the SodaStream wrapping on the bottle, so that when the bottle is almost out of its tested life, take it back to get another genuine Soda Stream refill. )

The valve connector on the 30l and the 100l is indeed the same - so a reg can be bought for $75 from www.toolsonline.co.nz that will fit the AS2473 Type 30 connector used on the NZ Sodastream bottles.

With the addition of a shutoff solenoid you should be able to extend the run time per 885g from 2 to 3 months for $5

As for a diffuser, I used a corner foam filter (old style) and inverted it so the outlets were at the bottom . Then drilled a 12mm hole the same size as the outlet from a low volume powerhead into the top of the unit (Formerly the base). The powerhead was siliconed into position and the gas line run up into the inverted filter. The unit was filled with Bio Media and a layer of foam placed at the bottom. The cover was then fitted.

Now when the CO2 flows it travels into the bio media via the gas line and airstone. It spreads on the surface of the biomedia and top of filter, the powerhead flows tank water through the unit. So far it is working 100% all CO2 is being disolved and no leaks detected.

[Dasher]

~$200 including a diffuser, bottle, reg, pipe at a guess

and your local supermarket will give you a replacement Sodastream bottle for $10.

Also remember you dont need CO2, so if you can't afford it one fortnight for some reason, you dont have to worry about it, so there is no commitment.

Seems like the perfect half-way point between yeast in a bottle and the big compressed systems.

Second Hand 100l 885g alco2jet sodastream unit - $20 to $40

Reg - www.toolsonline.co.nz - AS2473 Type 30 fitting $76

Homemade diffuser and powerhead $20

Needle valve from model shop - $18

Optional solenoid $100

Refills from SodaStream for 30l $9 for 100L appx $27 (From gas co - $5 for 100l)

Good thing with this is that a large cylinder can be used for the primary and a second 30l can be held and used while the primary is off being filled. A 30l cylinder will cost $10 max on TM and can be filled by gas supplier also.

System is compact, reliable, inexpensive.

I would say this is as good as any "big" system. It uses the same methodology. Last time I looked an Eheim system came with a 400g bottle - that is 485g smaller than this system.

[fishboi]

You do loose a small amount of gas putting the reg on because of the design. As it screws on it depresses the pin on the bottle so the last ¼ to ½ turn requires a quick twist using a spanner. I put the bottle in the vice to hold the bottle. Wear gloves and safety glasses. Co2 escaping under pressure is very cold and ice will form around the leaking area.

so u would have to go though this every time u get the bottle refilled? this is the only reason i am leaning more towards an proper set up as the idea of putting a full co2 bottle in a vice .........

[SpidersWeb]

The pressure inside the bottle when full is a lot stronger than the tiny amount of pressure you'd need to hold it in place with a vice. The vice is just more convinent than squeezing it with your legs, or having someone try to hold it (which doesn't work because arms move, vices dont).

I can see it being a mission trying to do it by hand, but $20 vice, $5 spanner, quick twist, no problem. Also getting replacements from your local supermarket is crazy convinence, get some Tim Tams and a Coke while ya there :lol: 8) Our local New World sells fish tanks too :-?

[Dasher]

The pressure inside the bottle when full is a lot stronger than the tiny amount of pressure you'd need to hold it in place with a vice. The vice is just more convinent than squeezing it with your legs, or having someone try to hold it (which doesn't work because arms move, vices dont).

I can see it being a mission trying to do it by hand, but $20 vice, $5 spanner, quick twist, no problem. Also getting replacements from your local supermarket is crazy convinence, get some Tim Tams and a Coke while ya there :lol: 8) Our local New World sells fish tanks too :-?

Nah your over engineering the solution. Your intestines are a proven method of holding CO2 with out gas loss. just swallow the cylinder which makes the solution gas tight and portable. Just a problem connecting up the hoses.

[evilknieval69]

Nah your over engineering the solution. Your intestines are a proven method of holding CO2 with out gas loss. just swallow the cylinder which makes the solution gas tight and portable. Just a problem connecting up the hoses.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[SAFFABOY]

I was wondering.I have seen these co2 tanks on trade me with a wee tap on the top.If you just connected the outlet to a thin pipe and a diffuser,and used the tap to control gas output.Would the tap control the gas output adequetly.I just want a basic simple co2 system.Thought this might be an easy way .What do you think?

[Dasher]

I was wondering.I have seen these co2 tanks on trade me with a wee tap on the top.If you just connected the outlet to a thin pipe and a diffuser,and used the tap to control gas output.Would the tap control the gas output adequetly.I just want a basic simple co2 system.Thought this might be an easy way .What do you think?

You can do it like that, but you will find it hard to get the regulator to adjust down finely enough to get the 1 to 3 bubbles a second that are needed.

Drop into the local model shop and get a stainless or Brass in-line Needle valve - $15 to $25. That will make the adjustment easier. It just sits in the line after the Reg and before the Diffuser and bubble counter.

The Solenoid is only used to shutoff the gas when lights are off and the plants are in reverse cycle. It will save gas, and if you are using smaller bottles i.e. 300g will make them last a month per fill.

Has anyone seen the JBJ Bubble Counters sold locally?

[evilknieval69]

I bought one of these regulators last night from toolsonline, so will see how it goes once it arrives.

I have everything setup, just need to plug the regulator into the air line, and screw it onto the bottle....

Will report back my progress....

P.S. I have a needle valve to control its flow aswel

[Dasher]

I bought one of these regulators last night from toolsonline, so will see how it goes once it arrives.

I have everything setup, just need to plug the regulator into the air line, and screw it onto the bottle....

Will report back my progress....

P.S. I have a needle valve to control its flow aswel

Hows it going Evil?

I finally have mine CO2 running sweet, changing to silicon tube did the trick. However PH is low now - sitting at 6.6ish, usually up at 7.0

Plants are bounding along, some you can virtually see growing up to 5cm a day.

Using the 885g Sodastream bottle is worth the effort to find, it provides a far larger supply than the 300g bottles. The DIY diffuser is giving me 100% diffusion rates with 3 to 5 bubbles a sec feed rate. I am seeing no co2 bubles heading up, so am getting maximum co2 mixing.

Odd thing though is that only plants not responding as fast as expected is the Java Moss that I am trying to grow for cover for fry. It just refuses to grow in my tank. This may be from the lowered PH?

[SAFFABOY]

I have a few questions about this system.

1.What type of tubing do you use.Is it special tubing or just some regular clear tubing that can be picked up from mitre 10 etc.

2.Can you explain the solenoid part of the system.Dont know anything about solenoids.Where can i buy them and how much are they?

cheers

[Dasher]

I have a few questions about this system.

1.What type of tubing do you use.Is it special tubing or just some regular clear tubing that can be picked up from mitre 10 etc.

2.Can you explain the solenoid part of the system.Dont know anything about solenoids.Where can i buy them and how much are they?

cheers

I used Silicon (available from you LFS), it is usually softer than normal air hose and slightly opaque. CO2 can (and will) leak through the pour on normal plastic hose, so you cn lose 25% of your gas flow. Silicon is a less porous medium but over time will sill react with the acidity of the CO2 and will break down. Special CO2 proof hose is available from specialty stores, but at the price, you can replace the silicon 4 to 5 times for the same cost.

The solenoid is a gas switch. Plant basically reverse cycle at night. i.e. during the day they consume the co2 and convert it to Carbon and Oxygen. The carbon promotes growth and the Oxygen is expelled. At night they reverse and Co2 is produced (As I believe). Thus feeding CO2 into a tank at night is a waste or resource. The electrically driven solenoid shuts off gas as soon as the lighting circuit on your tank turns off.

This also has advantage of reducing the co2 acidity to only times when co2 is being consumed (Daylight hours). So the PH doesnt drop as much and tank time to recover over night and the buffering to kick in.

There are probably lots of other helpful side effects of the solenoid but these are just from my observations so far.

www.valves.co.nz for the solenoid - just mention it is for co2 as the gas is corrosive so different seals are needed. Typically $75 to $100 for a 240V In-line Gas Shutoff solenoid.