lduncan

Some people may find this interesting. Fact 1: Zeovit zeolite leaches iron. Lars Sarbella tested the zeolite used in the zeovit system (in 1998 i think) and found that it added and average of 200ug/L of iron daily. Fact 2: Zeovit zeolite leaches iron. Habib has recently done less sophisticated experiments and, although not willing to disclose actual numbers, he has confirmed that it would easily added at least 20ug/L of iron daily. Fact 3: Average iron level at the surface of the ocean is less than 1ug/L (closer to 0.3ug/L) Fact 4: Iron enrichment causes zooxanthellae populations (and many algaes and bacteria) to increase. The largest increase in zooxanthellae was found in that with just iron additions: Response of a scleractinian coral, Stylophora pistillata, to iron and nitrate enrichment.    Ferrier-Pages, Christine; Schoelzke, Vanessa; Jaubert, Jean; Muscatine, Len; Hoegh-Guldberg, Ove.   Observatoire Oceanologique Europeen, Centre Scientifique de Monaco, Monaco, Monaco.   Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology (2001), 259(2), 249-261. Fact 5: Elevated iron levels can cause corals to bleach. (Zooxanthellae populations increase as above, however once a limit is reached the coral begins to expel zooxanthellae) Metal tolerance in the scleractinian coral Porites lutea. Harland, A. D.; Brown, B. E. Cent. Trop. Coastal Manage., Univ. Newcastle upon Tyne, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. Mar. Pollut. Bull. (1989), 20(7), 353-7. Which states “Exposure of the scleractinian coral P. lutea to elevated iron concns. leads to a loss of zooxanthellae (symbiotic algae) from the coral tissuesâ€. Fact 6: Bleached corals can be colourful Fact 7: Metal eating bacteria exist in marine environments which use ammonia as an electron donor in the reduction of iron, under aerobic conditions. Less ammonia leads to less nitrate being formed. Fact 8: Iron compounds are used in commercial phosphate removers due to their ability to bind phosphate. Fact 9: Different species of metal eating bacteria use iron as an electron donor to reduce nitrate under anerobic conditions. Layton

It's the same story, you've just never bothered to read it. Or don't understand it. In which case, I hope others find it useful. Layton

Sorry. I couldn't resist. But you're wrong. This shows your complete misunderstanding of what the iron may be doing. This is where you went wrong. Iron is not having a toxic effect on zooxanthellae at all. Quite the opposite. It allows them to increase in numbers. Much like the effect of a "red tide". Iron enrichment does this to algae in marine environments. It's the fact that they may increase in numbers within the coral tissue to levels beyond where the coral can regulate them, which may result in them being expelled by the coral. If you bothered to read anything in the paper, you will also see that different coral species differ in their tolerance levels, and they can actually adapt to elevated iron levels. This may also explain why you can see colour changes in corals while still having a lot of algae and cyano covering rocks. So wasp, please take the blinkers of and take the information at face value. I have no financial interest in the system, nor any other system, just an interest in the processes which may be going on. Layton

So did I... kind of. ;-) Layton

Cool. Maybe the higher iron levels, increases the zoox in the coral, supplying it with more food than they would usually get. I remember reading an article a few months ago by Eric B. he was saying that gonioporas had a undeserved bad reputation. Many species often did well in many aquariums, but there were specific species which were found to be very difficult to keep, and the easy to keep species all got tared with the same brush. Steve Weast has also had success with gonioporas dropping babies. I see cyano too ;-) Layton

Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis, Blue Line Angel. Anyone seen one of these in NZ:

Worms maybe? Maybe they need something specific in their diet? They are a really nice fish though. It would be nice to keep one. Maybe something to keep in a really big reef tank, which can sustain them picking at coral. Layton

The world is full of idiots. If you read the bottle they tell you exactly what's in it. What they don't do it tell you how to make it. wasp, in your own immortal words: If you won't accept that iron is a completely plausible explanation of how zeovit may work, then I really don't know what to say. There is a lot of correlation there. Layton

So you've tested your tank? What level did you measure? Clearly you have not read the thread. Lars Sabrella analysis found addition of 200ug/L per day. Habbib has done a less sophisticated test, and although not willing to state exact values found, he has stated that he would easily agree with a value of 20ug/L per day. The concentration in NSW is easily less than 1ug/L (approx 0.3ug/L at the surface) So you're looking at least 20 times the NSW levels entering you're system every day. It's been shown the amount of iron entering these systems is what I have stated. What happens to it and how it is controlled I don't know. Like you said, there are other components to the system. The iron added is significant, and you can not just overlook it. Nor can you assume it has no effect. All living things use phosphate. So yes this is plausible. Iron also has a strong affinity to phosphate too. I think iron may be central to this process when using the zeovit system. So you agree with me now? Take a look at these photos: Seems like coral colouration is out of sync with nutrient reduction to me. How do you explain it? I wouldn't say it's a stupid question. What you've said is true. Let me rephrase then. Why does the zeoguide have warnings of tissue necrosis when using the system? What causes this reaction? Iron explains all of these effects. I have yet to see another explanation which covers all of these points. Wasp if you come up with one, I'll gladly add it to my list of possible mechanisms. Layton

Why are you happy to put zeovit zeolite in you're tank when it leaches this amount of iron. Is this not potentially dangerous? If it is well understood, enlighten us. How does it work. The mechanism should provide reasons for the following: Phosphate reduction. Nitrate reduction. Colouration of corals despite indicators of high nutrients. Occasional coral losses. What conspiracy theories are you talking about? Layton

Maybe a strong chelator? Zeofood is apparently vitamins and amino acids. Corals fluorescent proteins are created from amino acids.

And and interesting Part IV: There are other species of metal eating bacteria, which under anerobic conditions use iron as an electron donor to reduce nitrate. Layton

My offer still stands. But my offer had the condition of someone financially covering any losses which may occur. Send a written agreement and i'll do it. Don't forget coral prices are sky high ;-) I just don't think that my corals will take too well to me dosing between 20 to 200 times the natural concentration of iron in seawater EVERY day. Layton

Part III Iron is used in many other products to remove phosphate. Layton

On to part II Metal eating bacteria use ammonia as an electron donor in the reduction of iron. Less ammonia -> less nitrate

Hey wasp, YOU don't believe the research is valid in the context of an aquarium. The argument is only circuitous because you refuse to see what is starting you in the face. Zeolite leaches a LOT of iron. Elevated iron can cause bleaching. Bleaching can result in pretty colours. I trust the research. You don't even understand it. Layton

I tried a juvenile in a reef, and it picked at soft coral polys all day. It was a pain to catch and remove too. I wouldn't risk one in a reef again. Layton

What does it have to do with iron? That question was unrelated to that picture. What i mean is, why does iron cause some acro's to turn more green? Layton

No easy way to remove them. They are prolific breeders, and you're likely to have hundreds of eggs in the tank. The only way i know of to get rid of them is by removing their food source, or killing them chemically, using iodine dips, or copper dips. Most nudis aren't a problem. It's the white ones which seem to be the coral eaters.

wasp, read the subtitles. What do you think causes the green colour? Layton

That pinky purple looks pretty colourful to me. Guess what colour the corals turned after recovering from the bleaching? Layton

This time with subtitles:

I would say that statement is wrong. And so is yours. Bleaching can result in colourful corals. Spot the bleached coral:

It appears that the system may be centred around iron, and trying to control it's effects. Iron can explain the colouration seen in zeovit tanks. Layton

It will do one of two things depending on the amount of iron. Turn more brown, or bleach. Layton