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Could your fish have been trying to breed? I know with goldfish and my new WCMM's a temperature change triggers spawning acivity.

Was the water clear? I 'thought' my water was clear until I put in a plant called 'myriophyllum propinquum' which is a native milfoil or like the stuff I think they call parrot's feather. About a week later I was looking into the pond and realised I could see absolutely everything down to little stones sitting on the very bottom! When I was next at the shop where the plant had come from (The WaterGarden in chch) I re-read the 'blurb' and it said it was excellent for clearing up the water! Maybe if she doesn't have any oxygenators she should buy a couple to put down in the bottom. I think junk in the bottom is unavoidable and ponds probably need a good clear every other year or so. I have a bigger pond at a rental place and I had it profesionally serviced once before I knew anything about it. He put handfuls of barley straw in each plant pot. It's best kept near the surface so it can get some oxygen. Something about the decompsition of it that releases something which inhibits algae growth apparently. You can also buy barley straw extract in a liquid form but I've never used it myself. It works gradually according to the label so isn't like an algaecide but if her pond is clean now it might help it stay away.

If her pond is raised above ground level she may be able to use a hose or something to siphon out some muck from he bottom from time to time. My home pond is a large half barrel sitting on some bricks so I have some clear plastic hose that is very useful in getting out some of the algae and muck that accumulates in the bottom. I use a clear hose cause sometimes 'junk' or stones get dragged up and you can see where the problem is and try to dislodge it!! :-? I guess it's also important that she prevent as much stuff from decomposing in the bottom as she can. Taking out dead bit of plants or leaves before they settle on the bottom is a good start (either by hand or with a net). I think it's near impossible to have a pond without algae and some 'muck' but the same rules apply to tanks I guess, don't overfeed and try to maximize plant growth to minimize what's left for the algae.

Thanks fishboi! Have edited my post to clarify. Chillers would be Marine tanks? Would they be fresh or saltwater or can you have either? What temps does one normally keep chilled tanks at? (Just curious!)

I'm guessing I'm in a relative minority with an unheated tank in the house (I don't mean chilled thanks for pointing that out!) How many others are out there?

I have a 200L barrel with goldfish and a 30L plastic bin with fry in it Wishing I had more and planning on someday having a big pond! Pleased to have a coldwater forum!! Good call

Which of the algae eaters need wood in their diet? Maybe you didn't have enough algae for it?

hee hee! Have I now officially labelled myself as a geek/nerd? Damn I was hoping to pretend a while longer :-? Definitely watching the fish. I was worried about one of them a couple nights ago (I think this most likely when the ammonia was establishing its presence) He looked a little stressed. A bit pale and not exhibiting the same behaviour as the others but not gasping.. more like a little bit of flashing. I replaced a small amount of water and he's settled since and is eating fine and back to normal swim patterns. If the ammonia or nitrite rises at all above current levels or any of the fish show signs of stress I will do a water change (due for the weekly change in a few days anyway) but for now just didn't want to slow down the process since everyone seems happy enough. Hopefully my gravel cleaner will have arrived by then I am testing daily about 20 mins. after feeding in the a.m. and will continue to do so until I'm satisfied they're stable at zero again. Let me know if I should be doing anything differently!

Yup. Ordered a gravel vac and a whole barrage of other essential items just minutes ago now that I'm back at work. My home PC was not co-operating with Pet Planet's new and improved website Most impressive upgrade there I must say and the prices are just amazing (My PC was to blame.. it is woefully behind as far as browser updates go... we're switching to Mac hopefully at the end of this week!!!)

I found this website below some time ago when I was looking for directions for an aquarium medication. They have AlgaeFix in a whole range of sizes http://www.aquariumguys.com/algicides.html

Thanks fishboi, I've got my first ever fry in a bin so it's good to know not to hold my breath waiting for them to color up!

Thanks guys. The fish and I are now on the same wavelength They've worked out to come up when it's time to get fed and I've worked out how to dish out a really 'micro' amount of food crushed to the right size. Pump off and light on. I have a little ammonia and nitrite in the tank now (just the first reading past nil. I think it's .25 on both). Am being extra careful to feed sparingly. Tests have been the same for 3 days now so not getting any worse which I think is good. I'm hoping they'll start coming down soon as the bacteria establishes. pH is about 7.5. Thanks for all the advice.

So like what's the likely timeframe before they typically colour up? 6 Months? a Year?

I think I'll be ok without a water change. I swirled up the stuff that settled on the bottom with a little stick and they eventually caught most of it (don't have a gravel vac yet!). The rest got sucked up by the filter and I rinsed out the filter wool so it didn't sit in there. I don't think I put too much there, I think they just didn't catch on and weren't finding it. They did better this evening, most of them caught on that it was feeding time and there was very little leftover. I swirled it around again to get it sucked up by the filter (also don't have a very fine net yet either!) Thats the nice thing about granules, they're easy to take out if they don't get eaten. Might try to micro granules as mentioned above once the littlest ones grow a bit. Didn't know they existed!! Since this is a new tank I'm testing the water too to make sure everything's stable. So far no ammonia, no nitrites, pH is still stable. I'll test nitrates tomorrow to make sure the plants are taking up any extra. Should I turn off the light too when they're eating?

The shop mine came from had them in a tank with guppies ans swordtails! Animates had them with some small goldfish but when i looked at them they were getting eaten. They also looked pretty unhealthy and there were 2 dead goldies and one with dropsy in there too so I gave those a miss!! (they were also $5 each!!! The WCMM's that is!). ok seems ok keep up with the goldfish flakes. I just wondered since goldfish were such pigs if there was a difference with feeding this relatively small/clean fish!

It's been at least a week. It was either Thursday or Friday last week cause I found the eggs when I was stripping some grass out of the pond to set up my new tank. Found one plant with eggs in it. Put the whole plant in a bin and then found other eggs on other plants and with those I just plucked off the stem or leaf and put it in the bin as well. My 4 fry that I scooped out yesterday are still alive. There's lots of green algae and bugs for them to eat I'm sure but I'll crush some flake to a powder and sprinkle some in in a couple of days. Maybe these eggs will set a new record for time taken to hatch!! The water is warming up now since yesterday so I'll keep watching. I imagine if they die they'll rot and change color eventually!

Ok. So it's best to let the food float. Turned the pump off this morning to feed them but sank the food cause they didn't seem to be coming up for it. I guess they'll just have to learn the ropes! There are 2 very little fish and I'm worried about them missing out so I might try the feeding ring and leave some flakes elsewhere so they don't have to crowd with the 'herd'. DIY is always a good thing So always keen to take those suggestions on board. So the golfish flakes are ok? Are the tropical flakes any better? And twice a day feeds for the minnows? I only feed my pond golfish once/day but they have lots of other stuff to munch on. Thanks

Ok...the saga continues. Finally got my WCMM's. Yaaay! Asked for 6 but got home and there were 7 in the bag (although 2 were so tiny for $2.90 each that I guess they may have been half price ) Bought some flakes (I'm new to flakes having only fed goldfish before on pellets). Put a micro-pinch of crushed flakes into my AR-380 ... and then watched my poor wee hungry minnows racing around exhausting themselves trying to catch a bite as the flakes swirled around everywhere!!! The bulk of the flakes ended up either sitting on the gravel where the minnows wouldn't touch them or sucked straight up the filter intake! Should I be turning the filter off to feed them? (pain cause I have to unplug it from somewhere inconvenient!) How long can I keep the filter off if so? I don't want to pollute my water and don't have a bottom feeder in my cold tank so would like to find a way to have minimum wastage/pollution without my fishies going hungry I did find a long plastic stick (cat toy actually) and managed to swirl it around near the bottom to float up some of the sunken bits! I felt like a right eeediot but the fish seemed to appreciate it!!! Should I drop the flakes on the surface and let them float or hold them in the water for a sec so that they'll sink when I let go? Should I be aiming for bigger pieces of flake so they're easier to spot or blow around less? With the filter running the flakes sink regardless....but I tried with it off and the flakes were floating. I bought goldfish flakes from the supermarket cause I only realised when I got the minnows home they'd be too small for even crushed pellets. Is there any difference in the types of flakes? I have to say today was day one of feeding them (got them yesterday evening) so it could be they'll do better tomorrow but any tips would be appreciated. Thanks as usual...

I took out a plant covered in goldfish eggs from my pond maybe a week ago and put it in a seperate plastic bin which I half filled with clean'ish pond water. The eggs have not yet hatched. They are still clear and I can see black spots in them and a black stripe (I guess their tail or innards!). They have been like this for several days now I don't see any movement inside the eggs. Am I just being impatient? It's been really cold the last week and I'm wondering if they are dead? (I did however manage to find a whole 4 live fry in the pond so I scooped them out and put them into the bin where I'm hoping for some 'hatchlings' so all is not lost) Any ideas?

Interesting to know that it removes fertilisers too. I did wonder about that. Did a bunch of reading on the web last night on a Seachem page about all sorts of things including carbon and how it helped filter out proteins and ammonia. Then I read about Flourish but then it says flourish had amino acids in it that help mimic ammonia in a form the plants can use and I wondered how those got by the carbon? I used some carbon to help bind up some meds I had used on some pond fish a while back (treated in a plastic tub) and I have to agree....I wasn't comfortable until I had changed a significant amount of water in small/medium quantities over several consecutive days. Point taken too re: few water changes. I won't ty to get away with few water changes unless I also understock and plant heavily. (Might be leaning towards that anyway though!)

Now that's what I like to hear. Done then.. when this cartridge is due for changing I'll just use some 'cut to size' filter wool. Thanks once again folks

Any fishy smells or yellowish water without the carbon?

I was about to buy some replacement carbon cartridges for my Aqua One tank and then saw the 'wool only' option which is half the price of course. (Or better yet there's always the bulk stuff I could cut to size) Do you all use carbon? Has anyone ever tried going without for any prolonged period and if so did you notice any changes? Also I understand carbon should be removed if medications are added but what about algaecides? Would they also be removed by the carbon?

Late night huh SpidersWeb Happy New Year and thanks for the reply. I'm pleased to hear that WCMM's are clean fish! I knew goldfish were heavy polluters but had never found any reference for WCMM's. I'll be off to the shop then to buy my first inhabitants!! I'll keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrites and put some pond water in the tank if it looks to be going badly (trying to minimize algae transfer). Maybe I'll start with 5-6 and just let them breed up to a bigger population. (Still pleased the tank can handle more though although with the plants and wood it wouldn't take much to overcrowd things!!) Thanks!

Hi all, Have finally got my first tank set up. It's been running 3 days. Has a good number of long/well rooted plant stems (3 types, maybe 20 good stems in total?) and a couple small bunches of lilaeopsis grass, all from an established pond. It's a cold tank, 34L although with my fat driftwood and reasonable gravel layer I reckon there's only about 28L-30 in there. Filter is running 24/7 and lights on 12hrs/day on a timer. Substrate is plain/fine gravel only. A few Questions: How long will the plants be ok without a food source? Plants are not potted, just roots buried enough to keep them down. With our cold weather here in chch the plants won't be going mad with growth :evil: Do I need to fertilise the plants soon or should I let them settle in first? How soon can I add some fish if I don't bother with the ammonia method for fishless cycling? (ie: will my plants have enough bacteria on them to speed things up a little?) I was considering chucking in my 2 very little goldfish (2 x 3cm) to cycle the tank. I plan to keep WCMM's in the tank (without the goldies). Would a little tank like mine be able to handle more than 5 once they're fully grown? Tank is aqua one with the filter in the hood. Thanks again. I may post a picture of the tank soon as I'm pleased with the way it's turned out