sharn

ya sure the one in front in that last pic is a melon luke? he looks more like a marlboro or something because he has so much blue/white/yellow? ive never been that great at classifying discus though :lol: the little checkerboard is a cutie alright 8)

SW- there something you wanna tell us? :lol:

spawning discus are normally sold for quite a fair abit (and sometimes they cant even produce fry!) so its probably cheaper for you to pick out a pair that are looking like they want to become good friends if you can find them. they will hold their fins up real high, swim up and cross over paths (hard to explain) while trying to look their fanciest and shimmying at each other (looks like theyre shivering). planted tanks are normally alot harder on the discus for the simple fact of water quality. discus need alot of water changes anyway but on a planted tank they will need extra care if its not in 100% balance (which can take some time to acheive). i keep mine in a bare bottom tank with potted plants and driftwood and cleaning is a breeze. some people dont like the look of bare bottoms though so its a personal preference. as ljtan55 said dont expect the discus to grow as well as they would in a bare bottom but they should still get some good size on them if they are healthy stock. rummies are great fish, they really brighten up a tank and will handle the higher temps well. they also get large enough to not become discus dinner :lol: i find my discus just LOVE worms, if i wana grease up to them thats what they get. mine are normally fed worms after a water change to give them something to look foward to (and they do learn whats coming afterwards!) :lol:

and the space requirements due to territories etc. discus are cichlids and even though they cant do much physical damage to one another they can get pretty nasty- relentless hassling by pecking, pushing, chasing etc. the tank doesnt sound too heavily stocked as most of those fish are quite small. i would look at losing some of the fish that you only have a few of ie rosy barbs and replacing them with more cardinals etc. once they reach full size you may find you are having problems space wise and water wise but until then you should be fine

youre right Gannet TRUE albinos are extremely hard to find and we would probably never get any in this country except in the very rare chance they came from a spawn here. a friend of mine in the states who owns an importing/exporting/selling to LFS business has only found 2 in his search that has been going on for over 10 years. he offered that person a five figure amount (and the last two aint cents!) and was still refused the people that do have true albinos are very secretive about them. sadly albino x albino doesnt equal more albinos the white ones are called lutinos, you can get really red lutinos or you can get the tiger lutinos (both look awesome). Quack- hes got a lovely big mouth on him, they look so neat when they open them up like that 8)

because you are planting it and wanting other fish i dont think you could get away with 4 discus in a 185L. after planting it etc you would be left with around 160L and normally we try to aim for at least 40L per discus (IMO more when its planted). the main problem i found when stocking with discus is they dont seem to do well in groups of less than 5 which means you need quite a large tank. when you only have a few (and i found this out the hard way lol) one will become alpha and will harass everyone else making them unhappy. i had three discus at one stage and it wasnt a happy tank. also if planting it and wanting to put your discus straight into it without growing them up (depending on the size you buy them) buy the biggest you can afford, i would reccomend over 8cm. planted tanks are harder to keep clean than barebottoms so unless your doing large daily water changes in the planted (which the plants wont like) they will slow in growth. its not a biggie, smaller discus can still be happy discus. i would also wait until the tank has settled and everything is running nicely before you add the discus, they can get pretty stroppy if the water is changing alot. i personally would attempt to find a pair that have just started showing signs of love, that way they will get on fairly well and just have that pair and your rams, tetras etc with them. dont go with common plecos, bristlenose are pretty good and dont often seem to have problems with snacking on the discus' sides. cories are another option along with a few of the fancy plecs. because discus prefer the higher temps (28-31) you will need to find fish that will be fine in those temps. neons are an example of what dies off in 30C your setup sounds like it will be great and it will be great to see how it progresses :bounce:

would an old fish net be fine enough?

dont be surprised if you never see them poop lol, i have only seen one of mine poop once :lol: it was very quick indeed and because they dont do them that often its hard to be there when they do it. gross subject but it was quite fascinating to watch (bet you all think im a wierdo now lol). its great to hear theyre passing their stones! its very possible your flash got the wildtypes pigment, mine shows gold spots in the pics too but theyre hard to see normally. good on ya for taking them and caring for them properly

HFF- this applies to africans only right? i have read that bloodworms are bad for some species of apistos also, is it purely to do with the toxins or is it to do with protein levels etc? bloodworms are in all my fishies diets but i dont own any africans :lol:

baby oscars change their patterns big time as they age. baby oscars are really stunning and are often sold as fancy new breeds ( :roll: ) but as they get older they turn out normal Tigers will normally be black/green/grey with orange, some have heaps of orange some have only a few spots here and there. its hard to tell what he might turn out like as an adult without a pic but i would suspect he would turn out a Red. baby Tigers normally do have some orange on them even at 3cm. perhaps youll just have to buy him and see how he turns out :lol: the exisiting three may not take kindly to another O in their tank so make sure you have a place he can stay if they decide they dont like him once hes introduced.

that girl is a bit on the large side so i would probably think shes got some sort of blockage and cause shes still eating its building up, its a bit hard to say 'have you seen her poop' cause they do it so quickly :lol: dont feed her for a week and see if it starts to go down. if you are concerned about her you can isolate her to see if anythings coming out. the second wildtypes pigmentation is a bit out of the ordinary but i wouldnt suspect it is anything to worry about. wildtypes can come in all sorts of colours and the gold isnt unusual. same goes for the leucistic- they come in all sorts of patterns and shades from white to grey and the black dot looks normal. one of my leucies is quite spotty like that. salt is great when used in short term baths for fungus, wounds etc but i wouldnt reccomend it. they all look to be healthy externally

:lol: @ SW, i dont like furry humans either though- especially back hairs *shudders* :lol: yeah FH = flowerhorn. i dont know the fastest route to palmy either but if you go the auckland to tga route via waihi etc you will see carine on the main hiway. im not sure if the other way would take you to rotarua but wonderworld is highly reccomended (might be best to stop in there on the way back cause you'll wana load the car up :lol: )

lol we will bash you :lol: just jokes, i heard they have new owners and its apparently changed for the better. sadly they stock FH *vomit face* :lol:

sand is one of the best substrate for axies! i have it in my axie tank and its highly reccomended by axolotl.org. because its so fine it doesnt matter if they eat bits. i got mine from benchmark, 'plasterers sand' but other places should stock something similar. i have a reall fine layer (just enough to not show the glass) because its easier to keep clean and its not there for plants etc. good decision on leaving the pebbles out, as you have already found out they do eat it and you could see them expelling it for a long time (heard of cases longer than 6 months after being removed from gravel). bare bottom is fine also, you could place some large pieces of slate down or a few large river rocks to make things look a little more natural. a substrate of large river rocks is really hard to keep clean because the food and poop fall into the large gaps and the siphon wont normally fit around them (learnt from experience lol). personally i would leave it bare bottom for now until everyone stops passing gravel and then if you like you can add a substrate. the general rule for space is around 40x35 for each adult when kept in tanks with more than one. as long as the water is kept on top of and they have places to get out of each others faces then they should be ok. what is the width of the tank? do you have any pics of the large female? it is possible she is blocked up or perhaps shes just a large female with heaps of eggs.

there arent really any worth visiting any more in tga animal antics and possibly living waters are your best bets IMO. theres carine just out of te puna and they had some pretty neat stuff when i went there.

my SD's are a great clean up crew :lol: they zip around getting my oscars gill bits and then go down to the substrate to get all those bits out. other than them all your usual larger (if the cichlids are big) bottom feeders will normally suffice.

agreed, im a bit of disease freak myself (find them interesting and have had to deal with a couple) so would be neat to have a book with some good solid info!

good on you for not inbreeding MRSkz! your little bit of effort now will make a difference down the line sorry to hear of your loss though, i hope your next attempt proves successful and you get them breeding!

in the tornado pick you can see the lines from some sort of additive sinking. liquid ferts?

theyll probably be fine as long as both species arent too agro or breeding. watch out for signs of aggression though just to be sure make sure you give the kribs some extra hiding holes (pots, pieces of driftwood etc) as they like a place to call their own :lol:

prazi makes that sort of misty look when its first added... perhaps something along those lines luke? looks good though, apistos would probably like it too?

oh shush you :lol: just cause you live in a country that always seems to want to fry its occupants with heat :lol: i was reading about some aussies that dont even have to heat their tap water in summer cause it comes out so warm definatly a good power bill saver if you hardly ever have to use heaters :lol:

inbreeding does cause defects and other genetic weaknesses in fish if its done too much. inbreeding is done alot in this hobby sadly and soon some will be left pondering why certain fish have certain problems like dogs do (ie rotties and their hips). im not saying this is the case either, catfish are pretty secretive fish compared to most and its possible they may have had something internal that would be almost impossible to diagnose by your average fish keeper? ive had batches of fish seemingly healthy die off one by one that all came from the same place and i couldnt diagnose it either either way im sorry for your loss MRSkz i do hope your next purchases go well

my fish have never liked tubifex worms. try what alan suggested if you really want them to eat them- some fish will be very stubborn though and refuse to eat them for quite some time but they will eat them eventually if they are hungry- a healthy fish wont starve itself

rams are great discus tank mates as long as they are healthy! try to get off a breeder as many store bought rams are from asia where they are mass bred and riddled with ickies which you wouldnt want to pass onto your discus or other fish. cories are great little fellows, a good choice when it comes to planted tanks cause they can get into all the little spots the big fish cant get to (to eat up leftovers).