american cichlid project

[quack]

im in the desisign stages of making a new tank for my american cichlids which are currently in my ar980.

i have:

2 baby oscars

2 baby convicts (m/f)

1 baby blue acara

1 jack dempsey

1 festivum

1 baby fire parrot

1 red spot pleco

1 syno cat

i also have a baby jag in another small tank that im planning to put in there too.

now im thinking of making a 630l tank(150cm long x 70cm wide x 60cm high) and using 10mm glass with bracing

im wanting to use a sump filter for this tank. im looking for some diagrams for how to set up the sump. also what kind of pump, what flow rate it should be and what size hole will i need in the main tank for the water to flow out.

any help for this project would be good thanks

[sharn]

i would go at least 700L to give those fish the best shot and living together in harmony.

oscars are going to hit puberty at around 6-8" and its very possible they will become like moody teenagers and its about a 50/50 chance they will go from buddies to worst enemies and include the tank mates in that list. just a heads up for that because it does happen. you can expect around 2cm or so growth a month from them up to around 20cm or so which means they will outgrow most fish which increases likely hood of them becoming bullies. i reccomend to get slower growing fish larger.

those convicts are going to become pains in the butt when breeding, theyll get all agro and take up valuable room for other fish and all those fish in that tank dont need any live fish in their diets.

acaras are pretty slow growers *i think*, i generally reccomend them as tankmates with oscars.

jack dempsy is fine, maxs out around 20cm but is a slowish grower. he needs a good hiding spot too.

fire parrots, well i dislike hybrids with a passion and they max out around 20cm. they can be nasty buggers but with their little mouths wont be able to do much damage physically but they can easily kill fish via constant harassment etc. i have seen them in alot of tanks and if theyre not the boss they are generally ok

red spot, max out 60cm and are massive poopers however they are ok temperment wise normally.

syno is fine depending on size but might get picked on.

keep that jag out of it please! jags are hella nasty fish and i have seen so many tanks wiped out by jags and people saying 'yeah my jags fine with my fish' only to come back later and say hes killed a 60cm clown knife, 50cm pleco etc etc. they are not fish that should be put with others unless the same sex for breeding. the only fish that stands a chance against the jag is the pleco. they also max out around 40-50cm depending on sex. give that jag its own 90gal+ and hell thank you for it.

not sure about festivums but as long as hes able to stand up for himself but not nasty normally and grows over 15cm or so he should be ok.

you will need a very very good and high turnover sump, you have lots of large messy fish in there.

not meaning to be a bummer or downer with that fish list but leave the jag and possibly parrot out if you see him get nasty and you shouldnt have too many problems bar cons if they breed. i would look at getting a smaller pleco also, perhaps something that maxs out around 20cm or so, large plecos produce an awful lot of waste and it works out they produce more than they clean up normally. your syno should probably take care of uneaten foods. if you do decide to keep the parrot and cons in there do be prepared for some goings on and make sure you have spare tanks or dividers handy. ive seen mixs like this work well but ive seen some go horribly wrong also, you will need to keep an eye out for problems or you could come home to dead fishies which isnt nice cause you do have a bunch of fish that can do damage if they decide to.

good luck for your project too, americans are my almighty fav and a tank with a bunch of large ones would look stunning

[quack]

thanks for the response. the fish that i have listed i already own and are all in the same tank at the mo.

the convicts are only babys, just sexable and they are already breeding . they are by far the most aggressive in the tank at the mo and im not to worryed if i gota give them there own tank.

i thought that the red spot only got small compred to most plecos :oops: oh well. but yeah they do make a lot of mess!

700l, thats cool i havnt ordered the glass yet ill just play with the messurments to get it around 700l.

the jag i have at the mo is female i think and is in a tank of its own as it was picking on my smallest oscar when i first put him in there, i think ill try and put him in there and keep an eye on it but i think your right itll be to phyco for the others

so what size hole should i get put into the tank for the overflow and how many LPH pump would i be looking at.

is there any rule of thumb for sump sizes compered to the display tank? if someone has some links for sump designs would be good

[sharn]

if you can get a bigger tank, i would try for around 800+ if possible to give everyone as much room as possible just incase one goes nutty :lol:

a google should be able to get you some sump plans but im sure someone will chime in soon to give you some tips on them

[TM]

couple of 25mm bulkheads should be fine, as for sump heaps of designs around, they do not have to be that big either, for that size tank a sump around 900 x 450 x 450 would be sweet.

What rate are you getting the glass for??

[Feelers]

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

This is the best site on sumps - down the bottom there are links to "everything you wanted to know about sumps", all very useful.

[quack]

so what kind of turn over(LPH) does everyone think i should have?

[SpidersWeb]

I run about 7.5LPH/L in my 200L tanks. So 7.5*630=4725L/hr

That might be a bit insane, personally I'd start with 3500, but doesn't mean thats correct, its just what I'd plan to start with, so I'll put my vote in for 3500 and see what everyone else says

[quack]

ok im going to be ording the glass on monday :bounce: , so i need to know what size hole i need in the back for the overflow. i was thinking of making it 40mm. will this be big enough i.e i dont wont the water pumped back into the tank faster that what it can flow back out :oops:

can someone please help

[Feelers]

40mm internal diameter? Should be heaps depending on how much flow you want.

Do you know how much flow you are having - ie what return pump you are going with? You can make sure you match the hole to the pump.

[quack]

no i dont yet :oops: im not sure on how much flow will be needed. i was thinking of 2000-3500lph does this sound about right what kind of flow do other people have on there sumps with tanks around this size. also does the sump need to be any particualer volume( i was thinking about 150-200l)?

yes it would be 40mm internal dia.

[Feelers]

Here you go.... http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php

40mm should be plenty - I just cant remember exactly what was acceptable, for 3000LPH a 32mm pipe might even be ok, there were a few threads about it here but since the search is funked, its really hard to find them.

I think 40mm might even be overkill, the calculator should help, but I think it errs way to far on the safety side. Have you thought about how your overflow is gonna work - did you see crackers syphon overflow; that's supposedly the most silent?

[stompa]

im running 3000lph return on a 350 litre tank and the water is crystal clear .... i run a 32mm hole and it handles it fine... i would go with 40mm hole that way you no you will be safe....

[quack]

i was just going to have the hole at the top of the tank were i wanted the water line and have it dain straight down to the sump through some pvc pipes. i have brought a conection for the hole with a 42mm internal size. so ill need about 55mms cut into the glass to fit it

thanks for that site.

[quack]

i ordered the glass today, came to a total of $297 cut to size with the hole cut in it

the final messurements were 170lx70wx60h 8)

what kind of plants would go with these fish??

i want to get some swords, will these fish eat them? has anyone got any tips to stop them from being dug up? and has anyone got any swords that they would sell to me??

hopefully ill have the tank made this weekend or early next week so when it is made ill get some pics up

[sharn]

i challenge you to try find someone keeping rooted plants that arent jammed into a real hard spot with adult oscars in a tank :lol: the red spot might also be a prob to plants, theyre pretty clumsy fish. most of the others should be ok though. oscars are notorious for re-arranging their tanks, i have fake plants in my O tank and even then they have to be weighted down cause he digs em up and they float :-?

try plants like java moss/fern, anubias etc and tie them onto things but if you get some of the big plants that need to be rooted pile large unmoveable rocks around their base- you might find the oscars pull the leaves though :lol: you want something with tough leaves that can stand being dug up a fair bit

good luck with making the tank up :bounce:

[quack]

yes thats what i was thing, something like java moss and furns.

i was also going to try and cycle it for as long as prossible with something like neons, that way it will give the plants time to settle in. (and when it comes to add the new fish they have a treat )

really would like some swords like these ones

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 916731.htm

[sharn]

i saw that listing i thought *bet those plants arent going to last long once that oscar grows up a bit* :lol: i am unsure what those swords are, sorta look like plain old amazons. amazons get some massive roots so may be ok, but i wouldnt put it past a 30cm oscar to have a 'moment' and rip em out and tear em to shreads 'just because' :lol: you can always try and just hope that your fish turn out to be angels, ya dont know if ya dont try right?

your cycling plan sounds good, that way the plants will get time to settle down and root properly.

[quack]

hey i got my glass on friday and ive just finished making the tank :bounce: i painted the back metalic blue, ive also got the first lot of lights which are: a 5 foot fitting with a grolux tube and just a normal cool white tube.

now i just need something to put it on, i was thinking a big 6 seater table. any ideas

[Caryl]

A table would need more bracing added to support the weight.

[quack]

yeah i was planning to brace it with a whole lot of 4x2 or something then the sump will have plenty of room underneath and then ill put a curtain or something around it.

[sharn]

heres a plan made by a friend on mine for his 180gal. if your handy you could make one based on something like this- youd have no doubts it was strong enough :lol:

http://www.theoscarspot.com/smf/index.p ... 455.0.html

[quack]

well yeah that would be nice but would cost a lot more than what a second hand reinforced table would cost

well im going to order my glass for the sump tomoro now i thought that i would just run my plans past everyone.

its going to measure:

1200lx500wx500h (mm)

its goin to look like this:

i realise that there wont be much pressure in the spray bar part but i plan on drilling 10 6mm holes in it which will flow more than enough water through it with out it backing up to the tank.

if anyone has got any ideas or tips, or can see any floors in the plan LET ME KNOW please

[freshwest]

Looking good Quack. I think that sump design should do the job.

Im alittle concerned about your out flow hole you have made. Are you having an overflow before the out-let hole? From what I read you intend to have your out flow feeding directly into your sump, this could be too noisy. Check out the over flow setups they use in the reef tanks you will see they use an overflow box with the out flow via a dorso up stand pipe. I am running this system on my tank and it is silent.

Keep the pics coming

[quack]

yay i started to cycle my sump today. i have just got the pump running in a cirlce back to the start of the sump. i have 4 650 gm packs of jbl micro mec and a small pack of noodles to start.

im making my stand this week coming and just wondering if the thickness of the poly between the tank and stand has to be "so thick" for the size of the tank, ive got some but its only 1 inch thick will this be ok??