jude Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 I've tried googling this but just confused myself. I can't get my head to understand sumps. I understand that the water goes into the sump, flows through the filter material, into another tank where it can be heated, and then is pumped back into the fishtank - that bit is simple enough even for my brain. BUT, how do you ensure that the water comes out of the fishtank at the same rate its pumped back? If the tank relies on draining to send water to the sump, then the water being pumped back in isn't going to make it drain any faster - so if its going back in at a greater rate then the tank is going to overflow. And I guess its vice versa for the sump - if its taking in water faster than its pumping it out, it will overflow. Please design your answers for 5 year old level :lol: :lol: :lol: Cheers Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 you either run a full siphon system in which you adjust the speed of the water going down using a tap, or you set up a durso stand pipe, which simply put has the intake close to the surface so the water stays at that level and as long as your pipe handles the flow wont go far above it. You can also just drill the tank or have a pipe at the level you want the water to sit, but this tends to be noisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 You use an overflow. An example would be to drill a hole in the back of the tank at the level you want the water to sit, the more water that goes in the tank, the more falls out the back. So pump pulls water up from the sump, which causes the tank to overflow back in to the sump again If the pump stops, no extra water is going in, therefore nothing to overflow. I dont think there is much benefit for freshwater, except the ability to move the heaters out of the display tank. The saltwater guys setup a refugium which houses special algae etc that would normally get eaten in the main display but is needed to balance things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 I dont think there is much benefit for freshwater, except the ability to move the heaters out of the display tank. The saltwater guys setup a refugium which houses special algae etc that would normally get eaten in the main display but is needed to balance things out. I think a sump is a great idea on a larger fresh water tank, it allows you to run a desent wet/dry/trickle filter with large volumes of media, this is about as good as it get for filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 gravity thats the simplest way to explain it. water flows out of the display tank at the same rate its pumped back in from the sump. also, while sumps are more beneficial for saltwater, as suphew says they are also good for freshwater too. typically fine particles of "crap" float to the surface. with an overflow, the water from the surface flows out of the display and into the sump where it can be filtered. the sump doesnt need to be large, just big enough to hold any filtration equipment. also allows you to easily "hide" that ugly unnatural looking gear, helps oxygenate the water and depending on where the sump sits, water changes can be easier as well! many benefits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I think a sump would be great for a freshwater tank but I'm not thinking of setting one up just now because of lack of space. The only reason I asked is because not understanding frustrates me. I understand the concept of having an overflow somewhere near the top of the tank. Does that mean that the water being returned to the tank goes in near the bottom? Because if you have water going in at the top and going out at the top, then aren't you going to be sucking out the water thats just been returned and risking having stale areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwan Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I guess it really depends on how you disperse the clean water. A spraybar could be used pointing downward to loosen up any debris off the ground. Or, as the salties have, tonnes of flow with the use of powerheads which keeps the water circulating constantly. I think setting up a sump would be a nice little project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I understand the concept of having an overflow somewhere near the top of the tank. Does that mean that the water being returned to the tank goes in near the bottom? Because if you have water going in at the top and going out at the top, then aren't you going to be sucking out the water thats just been returned and risking having stale areas? can be returned at the top, just preferential at the far end of the tank. if you have enough water movement in the tank, the water all gets mixed up anyway. some of us salties have huge turnover so chances are every bit of water will make its way down at some stage in the day. you typically cant have the return at the bottom anyway, if the power goes off the water will be sucked out of the tank to the bottom of the return pipe (whereever that maybe) if its at the bottom, you'll empty your tank (unless you have an anti-syphon valve on the pipe) too much risk though, easier to just dump water in the top at the far end from the overflow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 That's great, thanks everyone. I can feel the fog clearing and more understanding setting in :lol: :lol: :lol: Cheers Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Another question - do you ever have to clean out a sump or do you cover the top with some sort of foam or dacron and just rinse that off occasionally? Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 salt water is completely different but for fresh you would have filter wool on top of the trickle filter stack, this speads the water out over the media and traps most of the larger crap before it hits the sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Great - thanks everyone - I will be able to sleep well tonight :lol: :lol: :lol: Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 hi jude i have just recently setup a livebearer breeding setup. i have a sump underneath with filter media, heaters, UV filter and king 4 pump. will post a picture to show you what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Thanks, that would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishkeepa Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I saw a sump that had these different grades of sand in it so the water flowed like throught different media throught a labyrinth. first coarse sand then medium then fine then filter wool. Is this very effective? I'm not very clear in my expalianation am i :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Should work fine, seems a bit of a waste of time though. I'd probably just go with a bunch of sponges and then some bio media. I'd say one big sponge, but that might be a bit tough to remove and replace without splashing everywhere. Or a big mat of filter wool instead of sponges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 hi jude... you can see my sump setup here at this link http://www.guppy.co.nz/index.php?name=F ... &p=619#619 hopefully you will get the picture and wont confused you too much. shiuh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Yes it did - I am now totally confused. Are there supposed to be photos? I couldn't see any :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Cheers Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 you cant see photos? i can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 you cant see photos? i can It seems only members can. After I joined up the pictures appeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 OK, I wondered about that but didn't have time to investigate earlier. Will try it later today ......... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 should work now...just click on the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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