lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Having a BB tank, it's really easy to see how much crap is produced from live rock. Seeing the shear volume of detritus which pours out of them, makes me wonder how much live rock you really need to support the amount of bacteria we need to have a low nutrient tank, and how much is nothing more than additional bioload you have to deal with? Currently nitrate and phosphate in the water column are undetectable. But nutrients are higher than I would like. What I'm planing on doing, hopefully some time this week, is removing a LOT of rock, and seeing what effect that has on the amount of detritus which is produced each week, as well as whether it effects the detectable levels of phosphate and nitrate in the water. I have a feeling that the amount of rock really needed is a lot less than many would think. I'll post some before and after pics once I've done the aquascaping. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 thinking the same thing today when looking at my "wall of rock". less than most would think i reckon, much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 I think I could get away with a couple of big pieces of live rock. These bacteria are pretty efficient. But there is always a trade off between having enough rock space to place corals, and having too much rock that it becomes additional load on the tank. I have got some 10mm PVC rod which I think I'll be using to stick bits of drilled rock together with, along with a bit of epoxy. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 I don’t think it is a matter of how much rock you need but I have found that if you have too little rock then it is hard to have many corals as the rock allows you to fit in more corals. I feel corals would add more waste than rock as they are shedding waste all the time. The golden rule is balance, take out too much nutrients and then you also get problems. If it was that simple by keeping less rock and going BB , then every BB would be spectacular, as yet I don’t see many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 True, I'd go back to sand if the current would not blow it away. My tank is certainly "clean", but I see better polyp extension in tanks with sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 What's polyp extension got to do with the price of fish? It's hard to determine much from it, as the reasons for it are so varied. The corals I keep don't need much dissolved nutrients. So i'm not worried about reducing them to the point of being damaging to them. There is enough phosphate in the plastic in the tank to last them several lifetimes anyway. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 This guy may have some idea on how much rock to put in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 He has no fish load so not need for much bacteria, put in 40 fish and see how he goes with that much rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 If it was that simple by keeping less rock and going BB , then every BB would be spectacular, as yet I don’t see many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 I don't really like the corals sitting directly on the bottom, too hard to clean. I'm thinking a skeleton structure rather than a brick wall type. It'll probably take a bit of epoxy and pvc rod to hold it all together. BB just eliminates a variable, it doesn't necessarily make a tank nice. Tim, do you have any big bits of rock at the shop? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Wow, that tank's a beauty! Japanese by any chance? It is certainly easier to keep nice corals etc. with a low fishload, although of course some have success with a high fishload, just need more filtration, more skill. I don't think the question of how much rock can be answered. It is dependant on too many variables including bioload, type of rock porosity, current, other filtration used such as zeovit rocks, phosphate remover etc. Does polyp extension have anything to do with the price of fish Layton? I doubt it. It has to do with coral metabolism / respiration, both indicators of health / growth. Unless of course the coral is "gagging" but can't say I've seen a lot of corals gagging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Wow, that tank's a beauty! Japanese by any chance? Beat me to the post Reef I know the one you posted is not Japanese, I was asking about the one TM posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Japanese do some nice BB tanks: Wasp, how can you tell whether the coral is respiring, or gagging (trying to remove waste), or a feeding response based on elevated nitrogen levels? They all result in polyp extension, how do you know the cause of it for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 How do I know for sure? Well I don't know much for sure However the tanks I'm thinking of which I've seen lately, the excellent polyp extension is accompanied by excellent growth, and solid healthy looking form. I take that as an indicator things are coming along nicely. BTW Layton those tanks you posted are great! The Japanese certainly have an eye for beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 This guy may have some idea on how much rock to put in? great looking fruit stand, reef tankl i guess not!! Japanese do some nice BB tanks: they also seem to be good with photo enhanceing the colours as none look real at all. even if i try! give me a slight brown picture with some colour and i would fully agree and that's a big BS. nothing looks real at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 to contribute to the question. i use approx. 60-70 kg in a 1000 liter plus sump system. less is more sems to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 In fact you are correct Cookie, you can tell for sure the pic TM posted has been enhanced, by the colour of the fish, which is unreal. I'm still picking it's a nice tank though. The one Reef posted is reasonably genuine, some of us checked this tank out a while ago & got some independant confirmation, although there is probably some enhancement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Cookie, there are a lot of tanks you could say that about. Is it completely fabricated? I don't thinks so. The colours are there, they may have been enhanced to the point of being annoying occasionally, but it's hardly a conspiracy to fool people. More often than not it's done to try and make it look closer to the true colour. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Sometimes it is a conspiracy to fool people. Check out the colours of those fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 come on layton, the colours are awfull to say the least nothing looks real. even the worst Zeovit tanks with its washed out pastel colours would look more real. i always wonder why peoplr have to do that? i am more then happy to show my "mainly" brownish looking corals. but to photo shop to such an extend is stupid because nobody would really believe those colours. even the aqua scapeing stinks (as there is none). couple fully grown acro's with some colour enhanceing do not make a reef tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Cookie. Which ones in particular don't look real? Pics # 1,2,5,6 look absolutely fine to me. Pic's 3,4 maybe photoshopped a little too much, but they are hardly painting over brown corals with colour. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Well, if this ones real, please tell me where to get one I want it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Sometimes it is a conspiracy to fool people. Check out the colours of those fish. I know what you mean they are soo yellow. And look at the shape of them, they like fast forward arrows, not sure what species they are, definitly photoshoped. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Reefer madness: The saturation has been cranked up a little too far, it's still a real coral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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