cracker Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Iintensity is one thing, however wattage is energy, You will never change that. 400 watt is going to be better for coral than 250 watt if over 600mm. Reflectors will act like power steering and assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Iintensity is one thing, however wattage is energy, You will never change that. 400 watt is going to be better for coral than 250 watt if over 600mm. Reflectors will act like power steering and assist. I thought it was PAR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 It can be called whatever, but energy cannot be converted up or down. It can be altered sideways, but thats it. a 400watt bulb uses more power therefore creates more energy, therefore more available energy, light and heat for your tank. Obviously this is without talking about inefficiencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Layton...your view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 PAR is an abbreviation for Photosynthetically Active Radiation, it refers to the wavelengths of sunlight that plants can use to power photosynthesis. Intensity is,... well, how intense light is and not a measurement as such. I guess you could consider it slang for PAR :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 From Sanjay's test, it looks as though the efficiency (PPFD per Watt) of 250W DE vs 400W SE are pretty much the same. PAR is basically just the spectrum of visible light (it doesn't specifically relate to whether it's useful photosynthesis, that's what PUR is for). It's the number of photons hitting a square metre every second, so it's a measure of intensity. Reflectors change the intensity by redirecting power into a specific area. A reflector running a 250W SE bulb, may spread light over a different area than if a 250W DE bulb was used in that same reflector, depending on placement of the bulb in the reflector, and it's geometry. But you will get the same power output, just a different intensity due to the difference in area it confines the light to. In short, yes you will get more PAR with higher wattage, and it generally seems to be linear (similar efficiency). What makes the difference is intensity and reflectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Higher wattage will not always give more par. For example you can have 2 bulbs of the same wattage, but different brands. One of the bulbs may put out 50% more par than the other, even though wattage is the same. Another example, all else being equal, a 14,000 bulb will often only give 1/2 the par of a 10,000 one. But it is not an exact science, each bulb has to be evaluated individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Tel, Tank is 2.3 X .65 X .65. Will take some UTD photos shortly, always happy to show it off Your welcome to come and have a look any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Higher wattage will not always give more par. Nope, but from Sanjay's tests, if you get a 400W XM 10k bulb, it will have pretty much a linear increase in PAR over their 250W XM 10k bulb. That's what I was getting at. The efficiencies are pretty close for the same make and colour temp of bulb no matter what the wattage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Joe Blogg, would you be able to post a pic how your bulb is mounted in your reflector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 i must admit i underestimated the benefit of reflectors - more specifically over tanks with larger surface areas they make a massive improvement. while those luminarcs are reasonably expensive for what they are, they really do quite an amazing job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 while those luminarcs are reasonably expensive for what they are After being involved in making 4 of these for Pies, I think they are a bargin. I agree they dont look like much but we spent many many hours just doing 4. I assume these ones would be made using some sort of automated machine, but still they are quite a complicated shape and have a lot of joints. Plus the volume would be pretty low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 After being involved in making 4 of these for Pies, I think they are a bargin. I agree they dont look like much but we spent many many hours just doing 4. I assume these ones would be made using some sort of automated machine, but still they are quite a complicated shape and have a lot of joints. Plus the volume would be pretty low having only seen pies ones in photo's, and obviously seeing these ones, i would say from your comments that pies have been exceptionally well made. i would give these a construction rating of 6/10 but a functional rating of 9/10. the material on pies looks rock solid, let me guess if you punched it your hand would come off 2nd best? if you hit these, you'd put a solid dent in it and would not even draw blood. i believe i could personally make them for about $20 each - and that includes someones labour to rivet them together. even so, there are alot of bends to them (although if you had a template its just like a jigsaw puzzle!) and also based on the fact that you aint gonna be hitting them its the reflectivity you're paying for and in that sense, they are seriously awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 AND they are the same price in Sin where i got them Nick put 2 on his tank I'm hoping he'll put some pics up cos it ROCKS, speed is coming around tonight to take some of my tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 i believe i could personally make them for about $20 each - and that includes someones labour to rivet them together. It's a deal. Do me a couple to go with those other lights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 better dial up the colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Tel, Tank is 2.3 X .65 X .65. Will take some UTD photos shortly, always happy to show it off Your welcome to come and have a look any time. cheers for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 It's a deal. Do me a couple to go with those other lights! :lol: perhaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 speaking of sanjay's tests, this is what layton is talking about. a VERY good article!!! so, intensity it is then it clearly shows that the diamond lights lumen arc III design is by far the superior reflector... http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... eature.htm and another good article that compares SE vs DE - concluding that there is very little difference between them when used with various reflectors: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... eature.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Tel posted some photos taken tonight under "puttputts tank" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Tel posted some photos taken tonight under "puttputts tank" is that a question or a statement? i see no post called puttputts tank?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 look again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Joe Blogg, would you be able to post a pic how your bulb is mounted in your reflector? I get back in country on the 25th. I will try to remember put post some up then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 having only seen pies ones in photo's, and obviously seeing these ones, i would say from your comments that pies have been exceptionally well made. i would give these a construction rating of 6/10 but a functional rating of 9/10. the material on pies looks rock solid, let me guess if you punched it your hand would come off 2nd best? if you hit these, you'd put a solid dent in it and would not even draw blood. i believe i could personally make them for about $20 each - and that includes someones labour to rivet them together. even so, there are alot of bends to them (although if you had a template its just like a jigsaw puzzle!) and also based on the fact that you aint gonna be hitting them its the reflectivity you're paying for and in that sense, they are seriously awesome. I haven't seen Jetskisteve's version in person, but the pictures of them look great! In fact, they look so good and so much like the real deal that I was a bit worried that they may get in trouble for patent infringement. I have the plans for these off of the RC DIY section, which started this whole deal. Evidently, the dimensions were not perfect and Pies sorted that out on his and the replicas made by Jetskisteve. (Maybe Pies or Jetskisteve could be convinced to sell the corrected plans instead?!?!) However, I made mine from the original plans using sheets of aluminum specifically sold for reflectors and riveted them together myself. The first one took MANY hours, but the learning curve is very steep. The last one took me about 20 minutes. For four of them, they cost me just over $20 each for material. (just for the reflector, not the bulb holder since I already had those) If you are using DE bulbs, you will also need to buy toughened glass as a shield, but that wasn’t expensive either. As per Chimera’s statement of them being flimsy, mine certainly are. They would definitely take the brunt of the damage from a punch. However, they only hold a small bulb securely suspended above me tank, didn’t cost me very much, in expectation will last forever and do a great job spreading the light evenly over a large area. TM also had some made professionally from these plans, which he posted some time back on his new tank thread. His reflectors are absolutely awesome and crazy strong. You could stand on them with no problem. I would love to have some like that, but they were quite expensive (to me). :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hey JB, sorry if i mislead anyone but i imported these from Singapore, as you said a lot of work to make and although i know a guy who could make some i dont thing our market for them is that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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