What causes this? (it was flukes, need some advice)

[SpidersWeb]

Hey guys,

One of my angels has been a bit sick the last few days, taking lots of big rapid breaths. Wasn't scared of me or the other fish, and would come to the surface at feeding time but was unable to eat.

I put him in the tank on Sunday and he was fine, problems started about Monday morning.

Then 5 minutes ago I was downstairs and noticed the scene below, so I video taped it, and it got rapidly worse, and now he is behind a rock and on his side (no doubt seconds from death).

Just want to know if this is stress related or something I need to treat the tank for.

http://www.starion.co.nz/video/MVI_0854.AVI

http://www.starion.co.nz/video/MVI_0856.AVI

Videos are around 3.8Mb each.

Water is clean, all other fish (5 angels, 3 Firemouth, 1 Sailfin Pleco) are full of energy with fins standing high and big stomachs because I probably feed them a bit much. Did a 30% water change (using Stress Zyme) on Sunday before putting new fish in.

[SpidersWeb]

Oh well, he died. I'm guessing the stress of being moved stuffed up his immune system and all hell broke loose. The other fish look like they're on Prozac since I started feeding bloodworms, so think it was just that one fish.

On another note, one of the other angels seems to have a mild case of fin rot or something similar and one of my Firemouths has a bite mark (from another Firemouth). I've got a bottle of MelaFix on hand and was about to add it when I read 'anti-bacterial' and realised that it might not be good for my 'good bacteria' since the tank has only just cycled.

Should I rush off tomorrow and fix my spare tank to create a melafix holding area, or will it be fine in my main tank? Dont want to kill the nitrogen cycle now that its working, so thought I should ask.

And do I need to half dose with a young Pleco in there?

[SpidersWeb]

Answered my own question after digging with Google

Causes rapid growth of new fins and tissue in as little as 4 days of treatment. Safe for scaleless fish, fry, and invertebrates. Will not affect pH, stain the water, or harm the biological filter.

Just thought I'd leave it here for future reference. That and I can't delete my posts here

[LYNDYLOO]

Hi SW,

Sorry to hear about your Angel

Good that you posted the info on the Melafix, great info to know, I am sure alot of people including myself will find it very helpful.

Lynda

[SpidersWeb]

Thanks Lynda. Thankfully wasn't too attached, only had him 3 days and he only cost $6. I had named him Flappy though.

I hope my fish like the smell of teatree, I spilt some Melafix on myself and had gypsy fair flashbacks.

[SpidersWeb]

eck

while treating the tank with melafix, another two angels had the same problem. Did a water change and ended the treatment on Saturday, two angels are dead this morning. Exact same symptoms previous.

All 3 fish came from the same tank at a LFS, so not sure if thats related, I think its more to do with them being the 3 smallest angels.

[SpidersWeb]

woo! Finally found out.

It's FLUKES. All the fish are showing signs of having a few e.g. flashing, itchy, scales, becoming more lethargic. My large white angel (who is as tough as nails) has got it bad, and showing the other symptoms red veins (tail and body), swollen gills, having trouble breathing, etc

The other fish may have died from a bacterial infection, but I think this was certainly bought on by flukes.

If I am wrong with my diagnosis please let me know!

Also can somebody please tell me what I should do to get rid of this? Sooner I can get something, the more likely I don't lose another angel! If it is flukes, I want to anhilate the buggers, I heard something about dog wormer?

All I have on-hand is Melafix and Stress Coat, but I've got money (beleive it or not, woohoo), so can go shopping for whatever I'm going to need tomorrow.

Ammonia tested at 0, pH is 7, temp is 27C, did a 30% water change yesterday using stress coat to remove the chlorine.

Oh and on the way home from buying a testing kit, I got another two little angels, they're too cute

[sharn]

another common sign of flukes is using/pumping one gill only, if you look down from the top you might be able to see them doing this. best thing for gill flukes is praziquintal (sp), drontal contains it i beleive so thats probably a good course of action. there was a good thread a while back on flukes, to do with goldfish i think.

good luck!

[SpidersWeb]

Thanks sharn,

Yeah the thread is here http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/-vp139339.html

Drontal Plus has Prazi along with others. Does anybody have any ideas on dosage? Tank is 225 litres, do I just buy a couple of tubes and see what happens???

[SpidersWeb]

Ok, so 2mg/L is the dosage required.

Vitapet Super All Wormer has 50mg/g

So assuming 1 tablet = 1g, then 1 tablet per 25 litres

I put in 8, so 25 * 8 = 200L, tank is 225 but take out air + rocks + gravel etc ends up around two hundy. I premixed the tablets in tank water in a seperate container before introducing the horrid mixture.

As much as us men love the colour pink, its not the water colour thats annoying, its the pink dust that goes everywhere. I sincerely hope this fixes the problems I'm having because there is about a week's worth of daily water changes ahead judging by the state of the tank floor.

If doing this again, I'd recommend adding the mixture between two layers of filter foam in your filter. That way you wouldn't have the dust issue. Out of 1000mg, only 50mg is needed, so essentially I've added 7600mg of crap I didn't need, which makes big mess and probably causes the colouration.

Anyway fish aren't bothered by it, in fact some started eating it :-? so fingers crossed it all goes well. Makes me nervous having my tank like that :-? :-?

[Caper]

Hope everything goes well SpidersWeb...keep us updated!

[SpidersWeb]

Bit worried about my baby redspot sailfin :-?

*sigh* might have to send blue a message, see if he can help, I'm too inexperienced for this.

[Caper]

Oh I'm sorry SpidersWeb...wish I could help

[SpidersWeb]

Turns out I did everything right, and all is well yey

Just have to wait it out. I've noticed the red sores on the sick angel have reduced to a mere pink so either the Prazi or Melafix is working, but blue noticed some gill tissue damage on his right gill.

[sharn]

the gill tissue damage should heal up, if its badly injured he might never get it back to 100% but it probably isnt too bad.

let us know how everything gets on

[Faran]

sailfin looked a bit bloated and may be constipated if doesn't decrease. Treatment for this is epsom salt at.... 1 tablespoon per Gallon (will have to double check that - sharn will know) but bloat is somewhat fatal to fish in general. Colouration could have been stress or discomfort.

Angel looked like it could really use a hospital tank to recover in. Treatment seemed good and was holding stable and seems to be recovering. Noticed gill was almost black on one side and this could have been due to a ammonia spike in a new tank cycle or otherwise. These things happen and it's just like our lungs - they take a licking and keep on ticking.

Hope they feel better. mate!

[sharn]

for tanks with plecos is 1 tbsp per 40L (tincy bit off blue :lol: ), that will help if its constipation, if its something else it probably wont do much other than make all your other fish poop :lol: if hes still eating chuck in some shelled peas and see if he nibbles on them, they can also get things moving.

good luck man and my fishies are sending your fishies 'hang in there' brain waves (i have trained them well lol)

[SpidersWeb]

Thanks Blue and Sharn, I only just saw your messages :oops: :oops: Forgot to pay my hosting bill, so no email notifications at the moment.

Anywho yes the Prazi killed off the parasites on the white angel, and it was looking better, however it died the next day. After removing the body I did a 30% water change. Day later all was well, and Jude was over and took some photos of my Koi angel (my favourite guy).

Yesterday my Koi and a white angel showed signs of being lethargic, and loss of apetite, and the base of their fins having a mild red tinge. This morning my white angel was dead, and right now my Koi is being a belly-scraper. Hard to see him there, can see him turn his eyes and look at me

Anyway the white angel showed nothing wrong with it. Fins were normal, no bloating, no ulcers etc, no unusual marks, looked like a perfect fish dispite the lack of gill movement.

No signs of flukes anymore, but something (I'm guessing bacterial) is killing them off. I only have two left, a common and a black lace, both are chirpy with fins right up.

The only thing I might have done wrong was overfeeding, but I didn't overfeed that much, I mean you can't see it building up on the ground, and the tank doesn't smell or anything (has that natural wet dirt odour). When moving a filter I found 2-3 of those little white worms, which the remaining angels gobbled up quickly.

So anyway I have no idea. Definately will not be buying anymore until I have a hospital tank setup that I can use anti-biotics/anti-bacterial medications on without pooping up my whole tank cycle.

Oh and my Sailfins aren't bloated or constipated, just really really fat. The big guy comes to the surface for bloodworms, and eats about 4 algae tabs a day. Both of these guys are doing well, and the little guy has grown heaps since I got him.

Oh and my new 4ft tank arrived a few minutes ago, w000! just need to get some wood to go between the tank/poly and metal frame. I've got all of about $4, so blue let me know if you have any spare wood :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Faran]

Building Recyclers. mate. I go to Ironman just off the highway at the Wallaceville/Whitemans Valley road turnoff and get what I need for under $10 no matter how large.

Sorry they're still crooking. I think I have a 2 footer with a plexi base that can be used for a hospital/Q tank. NOT recommended for extended usage.

[sharn]

perhaps looking into something like furan-2? its a pretty broad spectrum antibiotic or something like that.

if their fins are turning red perhaps they have septicemia? im not too up on that and im not sure how fast it works but at least you could possibly rule it out of the list of possibilities.

it could be the protein in the BW, during research into my sick common a while back i was informed these need a mainly vegie diet (after reading alot about them becoming more carnivorus as they age it was most likely the cause), meats seem to be more of a 'treats' food. people will often use meats to bulk up their fish so perhaps theyre just tubby from the BW :lol: