PENEJANE Posted May 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Well I have been spending most of this morning searching nano reefs. It looks like that would be the better setup for me considering the tank is only 67ltrs (not the 75ltrs I first thought). From many sites and posts at other forums I have realised that I don't need all the big expensive equipment for the small display tank that I am keeping in the living room. The most expensive part would be the light (looking about $70 for dbl T8 setup). Most of the nanos I have seen run on a HOB filter (no media) and 1-2 powerheads. Using live rock and sand for filter media. So this is what I am going to have a go with and see how it turns out. I don't give a flying rats arse about what my husband says. His big problem is that he thinks I am going out to get the stuff tomorrow when thats not the case. I am selling my bettas to get my camera and hoping to have some left over to help start the marine tank. Its still going to be 2-3 months away yet before I actualy get the marine started. So maybe all isn't lost. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Well you can certainly do that, & it will not cost much. For 67 litres and the low bioload you suggest, 6 kg rock will be adequate. If you buy it dry & cure yourself it is often around $10.00 per kilo. Better filtration will be had by getting a few bigger pieces rather than lots of small stuff. For clowns, the commonly available False Percula would be the most suitable in a small tank. These stay relatively small, and are also relatively non aggresive if you add other fish later. Get the smallest two you can find so that one will become a female & you will end up with a mated pair. A tank like that with a couple of clowns & cleaner shrimp will be awesome. In fact my first "reef" was almost exactly the same size, and had an anemone, 2 clowns, and a cleaner shrimp. No skimmer. My wife thought the clowns were ciute & that gave me leverage to spend more money :lol: . It is likely that some time down the track you will want to get a skimmer, and when you do you will see an immediate improvement in general "happiness" of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Wasp you have been watching Dr. Phil again, haven't you. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Dr. Wasp's relational advisory services! :lol: Actually having a marine tank seems to put a strain on many relationships & dealing with it correctly is important. I've seen several reefers forced to sell up & quit because they were not able to take their partner along with them, & eventually the crap hit the fan & it was ultimatum time. My wife is not interested much in the tank, and I guess not everybody is, so I've just had to go slow & stay within the boundaries, better that than causing a simmering resentment or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Well put, I shouldn't need to worry about this for a long time. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 yeah but as I said my husband thinks I am going out to buy everything tomorrow when I am not. I am going to get like one piece of equipment at a time. Like next month get the lights sorted, month after that the HOB filter and a power head. Slowly build it up and hopefully he will never really notice (expecially if I hide it all first! haha) so if all goes well I might have it started by xmas. Next question. What is live rock. Is that the dry stuff or the wet stuff? Reason for why I ask is that some sites have mentioned curing live rock. When I thought that live rock would already be live and comming from a setup tank. So if this could be cleared up then it would be great. Like do I go down to the LFS and ask for rock directly out of their sale tanks? With the dry stuff, once in water and heated with correct light would that become live by itself or do you have to add things to make it live? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Sounds like a good scheme Penejane, I think a lot of us gradually accumulate stuff unnoticed! :lol: Live rock, is as you correctly surmised, simply dead rock, which has been left in water for long enough for it to get full of bacteria to do the filtration. If your LFS will sell you rock that is already "live", so much the easier. However if you get dry rock, which will sometimes be cheaper, you simply make it live by leaving it in salt water for normally 6 weeks. Easiest way is to put it in your tank, some flow via a powerhaed or two is needed, and then around 6 weeks later it is done, or as they say, "cycled". You test the water along the way to see how it's going. First couple of weeks the water will contain ammonia, then as this gets eaten it will contain nitrite. In around 6 weeks the nitrite will drop to zero as the bacteria that eat it get up to strength, and you are ready to go. In view of budget, an ammonia test kit is not essential, just a nitrite one so you can determine when the rock is finished & ready for fish. You may know a friendly reefer who could loan you a nitrite kit to do a few tests. The correct order to set up the tank is to put together the tank, water, heater, rock & powerheads. Once the rock is cycled lighting & livestock can be added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 There are a few confusing things with live rock. Base rock - dead, dry rock. Uncured live rock - wet rock, covered in life - often from being in the sea. (like my homemade rock is right now) Cured live rock - wet rock, covered in life but finished the below process (and what you want). When you buy uncured live rock its' got lots of delicate life living on it, and when it goes in your tank there is a big die off. This causes the rock to shed lots of dead organic matter as delicate organisms die and are consumed by bacteria. All the crud coming off the rock is obviously not good for your water parameters, and it can take many months before your live rock is "cleaned" of all the built up crud. This is one of the reasons new marine tanks typicially have algae problems, as the nutrients in the rock feed the algae untill they are depleted. Cooking rocks is basicially a quarantine tank for doing the above - the reasoning is that it is easy to change the water, and you can put it in your tank when its "clean", intead of having it stuff up your main tanks water. You dont need to seed your base rock, there are enough bacteria floating around to start it off, but it will go faster if it is seeded. You will also have more biodiversity in your tank if you seed it. As for buying it - find out what prices you are looking at, if you can ask if you can buy it off the guy whos tank you saw (sorry couldnt remember his name), as it will be cured and ready to stick in your tank. If you have to buy it, you can go either path with base or live rock, since its a small tank I'd probably go with live, its not gonna cost that much extra, but find out if you can even buy it from your lfs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 By the way, you can't use just any rock. It must be coral rock, as sold for marine tanks by LFS's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Wasp, you beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Sorry Feelers your post covers my last post, didn't see your post till after I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Check out Myth 15, explains some good ideas. You should use his method as you have time on your hands, not like the rest of us who want the tank full of fish yesterday. :lol: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Ok so the stuff out of the LFS tank is "live rock" And I can use the dry stuff thats in the basket? If I was to use the dry stuff it takes about 6 weeks to come right? And if I get some rock out of someone elses tank do I still have to wait 6 weeks? With the dry stuff, once added to the tank would life start appearing? Like that pinky purple algae and maybe other bits? or is it all dead and I would have to add it manualy? Wow this is getting very interesting lol. So far covered filtration, lighting and now rocks! hehe. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showph ... imit=views That is the sort of rock work I would like for my marine tank when I get it setup. This site as a lot of awesome nanos. Including a .75gallon tank! its tiny!! but still well setup. lots of awesome ideas here and super small tanks. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 yes thats it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 It would be best if you could get live rock from someones tank, followed by live rock from the store, followed by dry base rock from the store. (this isnt accounting for cost) It would be nice to get some live rock for biodiversity, if you go primarily with base rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 what is the smallest size tank you could get away without a skimmer in?? Like, if i got a 200L tank it would NEED a skimmer or it wouldnt work i guess?? so what would be the largest possible size without?? Rogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 It can all be done without a skimmer - perhaps someone can find that awesome tank that had a dsb, no skimmer, small water changes and t5 lighting that was linked to a while ago?? Its probably a lot more challenging to keep things under control, but if your light on stocking it could be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 My Goodness I can't get over some of the tanks people have done on this site. 1.75gallons http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showph ... 2322&cat=2 bonsai reef http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showph ... imit=views Vases http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showph ... imit=views 0.75 yes correct its 0.75 of a gallon reef tank. Pretty shitty pic but you get the idea http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showph ... imit=views http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showph ... imit=views As you go through this site there are some real awesome looking tanks as well as some really weird shaped tanks. Some are made out of round pipe! like clear pvc tubing. Very interesting but weird. Hope you enjoyed. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 So if i wanted to set up my tank (which i have just figured out to be 112Litres) without a skimmer what would i need??? lights, a little bit of sand and lots of live rock i would guess because the live rock provides natural filtration..... All i would need to do is do small water changes often?? is that right?? Thanks Rogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 This part of nanoreef will have some answers..... http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 ok so after reading through that, i have figured i would need about 14 kilos of live rock for my 112 Litre tank to provide sufficient natural filtration, and then sand aswell.... So if its $10 a kilo for "dead" rock then it will be at least $140 in rock..... Then i would need a 100Watt heater, lights and sand....livestock.....corals.... the list goes on really. I see how it starts as a small project and becomes a small "costly" project Rogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 HAHA yeah it can cost a lot that is why the nano has caught my attention as I only have a small tank and I only wanted a small setup of a couple of fish, 3-5 corals (depending on size) and maybe a couple of critters. For thoes that are interested in something different for lights you could always try LED lights like this guy has setup. I don't know what the cost would be like but for thoes interested here it is..... http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.p ... opic=57855 Enjoy. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 There are alot of cool ideas on that site which I have pinched. I guess going so small you need to be more ingenious!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 im actually thinking of going with an even smaller tank then the 112 Litre and going with a 55 Litre 2 foot tank.... What do you guys think?? this way i could get away with less rock and sand etc. it would keep the costs down and it would be easier for me Thanks for all the help so far.... Rogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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