PENEJANE Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Hey guys. After much thought and arguments with hubby I am going to setup a marine tank. Don't know exactly when as budget is tight at the moment so it will be in drips and drabs. I am looking into a Eheim Pro Wet/Dry external filter. What is the average price of these and what do you think of them? My lights are going to be two fluros (one blue one white) what sort of things can I keep in this? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossco Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Don't do it Penejane! Look at all the horror story posts! Your husband is so right (isn't he always????) Your life won't be the same staring all night at a fishtank rather than a TV! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 why do want a wet and dry filter? you could spend the money on a better skimmer instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 because I have been told that I don't need a skimmer or sump if I have a good quality filter running in it and lights to be basic fluros (of special kind of course) Thats why I am asking about the wet/dry filters. Tank I will be using will be my current cold water marine (moving cold water to another tank) which is 75ltrs. All my other tanks are pretty tall when this is my only large shallow one to allow for the lights to penetrate right to the bottom properly. I do have a 3 ft tank but this is housing my 15cm pleco so I can't really move her. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Don't do it, save your marrige! Nah, I bet he will get the bug. First, how big is the tank you are planning on using? I take it you will not be using a sump since you are interested in the wet/dry. Eheim Pro Wet/Dry external filter: Eheim 2227 $499.95 Eheim 2229 $699.95 If you really want to go for a Eheim wet/dry I have a used one I could do for $200 plus parts and shipping. It has a broken float and may need one or two other bits. Was on my 4x2x2. Good filter. I like the way they surge. Don't surge to well when the float is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 how much would it cost to get the broken parts fixed? Out of all my tanks my husband has liked the cold water marine the most because there is so much life in it, crabs, snails, barnacals, anemones, fish, shrimp, star fish etc. There is always something different to look at unlike my fresh tropical tanks where its just plants (jungle in some) and one kind of fish who has had so many babies that its just fully loaded lol. Cheers Petplanet. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I would get rid of the pleco. Use the 3ft for the marines. You can live without a skimmer but will need more water changes and will have a harder time conrtolling nutrient levels. Doesn't mean it won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 ok looking at wet/dry filters most of them are no good for this size tank as the tank may be on the small size for the filter. How about one of the normal external canister filters? Would this work just as well. I know that I won't have the spray bar creating the current and stuff but would it still work the same? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossco Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I used an Eheim external canister filter in the 'early' days (about 9 months ago ). Kept the ammonia et al under control and mushroom corals and few hardy fish reasonably happy. As much as the %$$&* go on about flow in our tanks when I added a stream, and then another, I started to get real change happening in the tank. I now use most of the original gear on my QT tank so it doesn't feel at all wasted. You obviously love the fish hobby, so sure, start the way you are but plan how you are going to upgrade which you enevitably will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Penejane. Firstly, if you are seriuos, a wet/dry is not the best way to go. Natural filtration with efficient skimming is pretty nuch all you need. Parts: 1: Live rock 2: Tank 3: Skimmer 4: Fish 5: Corals 6: Some sort of decent top up evaporation supply. What sort of litreage are you running? We can then best advise you. Wet/dry systems will only give you nitrate problems. This system has gone out with the arc. Dont let anyone tell you different. If you are running fish only you may be ok, but you will still need to skim. ask questions........ Good luck. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 If you start out the way you are talking about at the beginning of this thread, you will end up throwing most of it in the rubbish after only a few months once you learn a bit more. It simpy wont do a decent enough job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 What Cracker said. Both wet/dry, or cannister filters, are absolutely NOT the right choice for biological filtration in a reef tank. This issue keeps cropping up because people think you can run a reef tank the same as a fresh water tank. In a reef tank you have to keep nitrates down to low levels, and wet/dry, and cannister filters, will not do this because nitrate reduction requires anearobic bacteria, which cannot function in the aerated environement of a wet/dry, or cannister. In fact, the filtration is very simple in a marine tank, it is done by the use of coral rock, which is porous, and these pores get full of bacteria, at which point it is referred to as "live rock". These bacteria do the filtration, including the needed nitrate reduction, which cannot be done in a wet/dry, or cannister. The basics you need in your 75 litre tank are 7 kilos or so of coral rock, a skimmer, and pumps / powerheads that will do at least 750 litres per hour of flow, double or triple that is better. You simply positon the pumps so they are blowing the water around and about in the tank, and thereby creating the flow that many of our marine organisms require. Lighting, are you suggesting around 40 watts? That will be enough, but only for the very low light corals. Mushrooms will be fine, some polyps, and certain lps if you locate them properly. You could keep a whole lot more coral types if you doubled that amount of light. The $600 or so suggested for a cannister can certainly get you a more than ample protein skimmer for this tank. You CAN go without a skimmer, but it is extremely likely unless the tank is extremely lightly stocked, that within a few months you will start getting problem algae, the corals will do poorly, and you will not enjoy your reef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Well the reason for why I was put onto the wet/dry canister filter is to eliminate the powerheads and pumps as the spray bar from the filter provides this current pretty well. We are very limited with power points and loading a wall up with rows of multi plugs isn't a good look. Expecially with young kids. This is why the canister filter took my interest. If I only need skimmer, heater and more live rock then thats not to bad but when it comes to power heads and pumps then its a bit to much. I am seriously considering biffing most of my other fish and just breed bettas for income and just keep the nice tropical marine for a display tank in the living room. The tank is 2.5ft Lx 1ft Hx 1ftD so by the time you got substrate on the bottom (could I keep the sand I already have?) there is only about 20-24 cms of water as I have 4cms of sand. With a skimmer is it cheaper to make one or does it work out the same to buy one? I have read about air driven skimmers. Are these the normal skimmers? Because if I could get an air driven one then if possible I could maybe use a real powerful air pump to move the water instead of powerheads. Is this possible Cheers I can see things shaping up nicely :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 My suggestion would be to have the minimal amount of sand you can, provided you do in fact use live rock for filtration. Just have enough to decorate the bottom, but no more. Why, because the sand can store waste and eventually add pollution to your tank. There are many different ideas on this, all of them workable, including the use of very deep sand beds to do the filtration. But in your case, less sand would be best ( IMO ). Don't follow your logic on having to have a cannister due to lack of power points. If you can plug in a cannister, you could plug in a powerhead instead right? this will - 1. save you money, 2. do a better job. Protein skimmers, this is the sticking point for most newbies, because they are expensive. You can get a simple air driven one for as little as $50.00, but they are not that effective. As you move up in price, they get better and better. Now the reason this is important - that crud that the skimmer removes, had it stayed in your tank, will be fertilizer for algae, and also have a negative effect on your corals. A good skimmer can make the difference between a crisp, clean, healthy looking reef, and a crappy one. If budget is tight, then a $50.00 one is better then none at all, however you should get the best you can, they will last you a lifetime. To get more info on skimmers you can pm the two importers, Reef, and Jetskisteve. BTW, airstone driven is the oldest technology, then venturri, and now needlewheel which are hard to beat. Some experienced reefers swaer by their old airstone driven skimmers, but that is because they have the knowledge to keep them tuned and running right. Most needlewheel ones are plug and play, hard to go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Actually you could use the cannister for flow, just without any biological media in it. That way the liverock will be able to do the filtration, and do it properly. Powerheads will still be cheaper though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 All you need to is a skimmer, big tank and live rock :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 214378.htm Would this do for my 75ltr tank? I have no idea on brands and prices and the two skimmers left at our LFS are soo old that the packaging is all faded and I can't find a price on it as its faded as well Are there any air driven powerheads or do I have to use electric ones? For this size tank how many heads would I need and in which direction would I put them? Would be awesome if the importers mentioned earlier saw this post and could help me in the right direction. Cheers. Things are starting to take shape. Even hubby is showing interest and is now looking up DIY skimmers! hahaha :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 How many litres? Are you running a sump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 There are only 4 systems you can choose from: 1: submersible skimmer in your display....UGLY 2: submersible skimmer in your sump.....NORMAL 3: HOB skimmer off the back of the main display 4: A remote skimmer fed from the aquarium to a cupbaord etc and returned through a pumping system. (Similar to a H.O.B, but more serious). (H.O.B = HANG ON BACK) BEFORE you choose the skimmer, you need to know which of the above systems you will be going with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Penejane, before you purchase one at a lfs or whatever, pm Reef & Jetskisteve. Trust me on this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Ok the tank is 75ltrs 2.5ft L x 1ft D x 1ft H. I will not be running a sump so anything that hangs on the back, side or what ever would be good. This tank is currently sitting on a modified table so it doesn't have a cupboard underneath. I have just taken a photo which I will now upload. The marine tank will be in the current cold water tank. Cold water will be shifted into another tank. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/p ... G_0020.jpg I move the lights from my freshwater onto this tank at about 3pm-9-10pm that is why it currently is in the dark lol. So yeah thats the tank I will be making tropical marine. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Your tank is tiny, so you should start off cheap and small. The best product would be something like a JEBO 180 hang on skimmer for arounf $100.00. The pump sits behind a rock in the tank and a hose runs up and over the side to feed the hang on skimmer. I AM UNSUE OF THEIR QUALITY, BUT I THINK IT WILL BE PERFECTLY ADEQUATE FOR YOUR SMALL SYSTEM. Remember it hangs off the back and will take up around 130mm of space BEHIND the tank, so you will have to bring the tank forward from the wall. You have plenty of room for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 This is a venturi type skimmer which will be adequate for your tank size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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