brand new tank - angelfish!

[lorrainel]

just set up my new jebo r362 tank yesterday! have 6 neon tetras, 2 clown loaches, and 2 small blue rams, and just wondering how long i have to leave the lights on for everyday? first timer at tropicals so not quite sure what i'm doing at all! any tips would be appreciated!

PS when should i add angelfish in? and how many fish can i keep in the tank (manual says its 109L)

[WalterRC]

Neons and Rams are not compatable at all with Angelfish.

Having said that I have 12 Neons with my 2 Angelfish and so far so good. But I am told that once the Abgels get bigger they will start or might start eating my neons up?

I am busy cycling my tank with 12 neons and from past experiences didnt expect any to survive. My tank is doing very well and all neons made it.

My Angels are extreemly friendly and peacfull and really cant see them eating my neons.

Its just what I've been told.

Good luck, looking good so far.

Cheers

W

[sharn]

welcome lorrainel

ok, so your tanks not cycled, i wouldnt expect the rams to live thru that so just a heads up unless your wanting to do alot (and i mean like daily) water changes, rams are pretty senstive fish and you could find your clowns might get ick (white spot), theyre pretty prone to it and a cycling tank is rather stressful even with water changes, they also will need to have more added to the group (wait till after the cycle!!), do best in three + and will need to be moved out along the track (no doubt by then MTS will have set in so youll have heaps of larger tanks lying around for them :lol: ) as they can hit 30cm but they do grow VERY slow. neons should get thru the cycle pretty well if you do your water changes, your looking at around 20-30% every 2 days i think, its going to slow down the cycle alot but your rams wont make it if ammonia or nitrites get up, i dont mean to sound harsh or anything, just gotta let ya know so you dont think theyve just died for no reason hehe.

for plants you need the lights on for around 12 hours or so per day un-interrupted (apparently it takes about 2 hours to work up their photosynthisis).

im going to say maybe 2 angels in that tank with that stocking list, try and get them from a reputable person and check their tummies and bottoms out, angels are pretty prone to worms these days, if their tummies look large or they have red worms hanging out their bottoms dont get them. and walters right bout the neons, they could become snacks :lol: ive only had one out of four angels ive kept that eats neons but he ate a fair few! he just snapped their heads off or tummies and left the bodies lying around it might not be a prob but if you see your neons start to dissappear youll know who to blame :lol:

[ljtan55]

HEY LORRAINE!!!

The pics you sent me look really really good btw. Lol I'm assuming its you anyways can't be that many lorrainel s in palmerston north setting up an angel tank Lol glad you've found this site, I just joined recently but gotta say everyones been really nice and helpful since. Anyways talk to ya later.

:lol: -Al

[lorrainel]

Hey Al!!

i know its great i'e been reading up about all these things i never knew about! i looked closely at my rams again and it looks like they're both boys but one has a real red nose it looks quite cute. I'll try to take a close up photo of them so u can see, but they're so shy still!

Hope ur not working today

[Caryl]

Lorraine if that is a new tank you have set up then return the rams and clowns to the shop immediately. The tank needs to cycle and rams are too sensitive to use for this. Also, clown loaches need a mature tank and will die in a newly set up tank.

The filter bacteria will build up slowly over the next few weeks as a few fish produce waste. This waste gets turned into good stuff by the bacteria slowly building up in the filter. Too many fish at once will die of ammonia poisoning as there is not enough bacteria to convert all that waste. This process of building up the bacteria in the filters is called cycling and it is important.

Some fish are hardier than others and can cope with cycling. Clown loaches are very sensitive fish prone to white spot disease. They are very hard to treat though because they do not have scales like most fish and are sensitive to medications.

[lorrainel]

hi caryl

the lady from wet pets in palm north was the one who told me it would be ok to put the clown loaches and the rams straight into the new tank. I set up the tank with gravel last sat, filled the tank up and put the nutrafin cycle for 1 day then did a complete water change and then put in new water with more cycle and planted the aquarium before putting the new fish in. The lady told me it would be ok as long as i did 2 water changes 20% with cycle every week for a month The clowns and rams seem to be quite active and are swimming around eating? I'm not sure I can actually return the fish back to the petshop

[sharn]

seems the ladys at the LFS isnt too up on fish, its a common thing sadly, are there any fellow fish keepers near you that can reccomend good places?

sadly those cycle products dont do much good either, itd be soo cool if they did, would be less work and patience for us all :lol: it wont do your tank any harm but it probably wont speed up the cycle

the ladys a wee bit off about doing 2 water changes a MONTH for the cycling tank, it would be ok if there was no fish in it but your look at water changes at least every 3 days with fish in there of around 20-30%, probably daily would be best if you cant get those rams and clowns back. during a cycle ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates can build up pretty high, to lethal levels so you want to keep the levels down by doing lots of water changes, itll make it much more comfortable for your new fishies on 99% of tanks you need to do weekly water changes at least, rams need very clean water so if you keep them see if you can do water changes at least every 3 days, aged water is best too as theyre very very sensitive to meds just like clowns, they will love you for those water changes and youll see them blossom to the pretty little things they are. sucks that lady put you wrong, happens to far too many people but at least you found this site and youll be on the right track from now on

note- is this edit ok now :-?

[WalterRC]

guys I think you are freaking lorraine out a little too much. Its not like she sitting on the atomic bomb or something.

Lorraine, firstly, just relax

Ok, so you and me both didnt do the correct thing.

Best we can both do is not to add any more fish until the cycle is over.

As I suggested in PM, just get some water testers to monitor the cycle.

I would agree with twice weekly water changes, but other than that dont stress too much, its not gonna help you or your fishes.

I am sure it will work out in the end.

In the future I will do fishless cycles, but didnt know about that option.

good luck, and perhaps it would be better if people gave us newbies advice and help, and not nail us with doom and gloom

Good luck, and stick with it

cheers

W

[sharn]

im sorry if i came across as rude, i didnt mean too

i try to put my smileys in and make it look welcoming but its hard, especially in writing, you make up the tone in your head when you read it, so once again i apologise, we just want to get to the point so you can help your new fishies out, if things get going smoothly it will be alot nicer for you, often people give up on fish keeping cause the LFS gave em bad advice and all their fish die, its not THEIR fault its the stores fault and we wouldnt want to lose a fellow fish keeper cause ill bet youl be hooked soon enough with at least a mild case of MTS :lol:

[Pegasus]

Sharn said:

im sorry if i came across as rude, i didnt mean too

Well.. Had I been a newcomer to the hobby I think you would have "certainly" put "me" off keeping fish.

Certainly the choice of fish was "not" the best for a newly set up tank.. but your methods of conveying this were a little over the top.. to say the least.

Also.. Quotes like this..

lesson one: never trust LFS people EVER

.. are not doing the hobby "any" good at all.

Just because your local LFS gives poor advice occasionally.. it is no reason to put "all" LFS's into this catagory.

Bill.

[sharn]

ok, im sorry :oops: ive only found 3 people out of about 20 LFS that know what theyre talking about thats all, people on here know alot more and can give you more personal experiences, its hard to start on what 99% of the LFS tell you and its often only when things start to go wrong that you look for further help and find out they mis-led you, ive felt real sad about this when it happened to me because they are there to sell fish and help you but often they dont... im going to edit it now so it sounds a bit nicer

[Caryl]

Lorraine also needs to know we have all 'been there done that' so we know, usually from personal experience, what can be done wrong and hopefully how to fix it. That is what we are here for. We do not intend to freak anyone out!

[Fishkeepa]

If the people at the LFS aren't much help your local library may have some dated but useful resource info. under the pet section. (That is provided your near a library). That + this site should get you up to speed on managing your fish and tank effectively. I too made the exact mistake before i discovered this site and my fish suffered

Don't be discouraged its a truley rewarding hobby 8)

[lorrainel]

thanks all for all your help + concern

just an update... have had the tank for 5 days so far... did one water change 2 days ago, will do another one tonight just to stave off those darn nitrates + poisonous stuff.

Right now the fishies are being v active, especially the clown loaches they're giving everything a once over and it almost looks like they're 'cleaning' the plants?! i dunno if thats normal i hope so.

so far 0 losses... fingers crossed!

[stompa]

Quote:

im sorry if i came across as rude, i didnt mean too

Well.. Had I been a newcomer to the hobby I think you would have "certainly" put "me" off keeping fish.

Certainly the choice of fish was "not" the best for a newly set up tank.. but your methods of conveying this were a little over the top.. to say the least.

Also.. Quotes like this..

Quote:

lesson one: never trust LFS people EVER

.. are not doing the hobby "any" good at all.

Just because your local LFS gives poor advice occasionally.. it is no reason to put "all" LFS's into this catagory.

i agree ...... IMO theres not such thing as an "expert" its more like an opinion we have all made mistakes and learn by our mistakes IMO thats partly the fun of a hobby..... getting a tank to cycle can be talked about for the next 30 yrs and still different people with have different ways of doing it and more than likely all those different ways will work...... i had a problem a ouple of weeks ago and got advice from a fish shop that has helped me in different ways over the years and this worked for him but it didnt work for me and i could have lost a few hundred dollars worth of discus ( they are fine now so im happy) but the point im making is im not going to hold that over the pet shop ..... it didnt work for me so i learnt my lesson and take that lesson look at it and work out what may have gone wrong.... its all part of having a hobby (learning about it)...... if we all keep saying " dont trust your LFS " then where will we all be when this hobby goes down hill fast. cos no one trust there LFS... and please dont jump all over me im just voicing an opinion. ive been learning for the last 20 odd years and IMO ill carry on learning for the next 20 years about this hobby!!!..

[ljtan55]

Lol this is becoming a very philosophical discussion. The thing is that LFS people are the first ppl a beginner asks questions for and when you're dealing with hundreds of dollars of fish, you would expect them to give good advice, and if they dont know, to say they dunno. Personally I've had really good advice from really good ppl from LFS, and lots of bad advice from even the same store, really depends who you get that day.

I suppose the end message is that its better to do a lot of research yourself, and ask lots of people questions, and take everything everyone says with a grain of salt. Lol and when you find a good LFS stick with em even if it means paying a little bit more.

btw congrats Lorraine!! Gonna get my fishtank soon just waiting to be paid , hows the filter doing on that Jebo tank?

[lorrainel]

oh yay i can't wait till i see ur setup when i next come back up to Akl! when are you getting it? u gonna put any fish in at the beginning :lol: joking only!!

i dunno if the filter is doing well... the pipe the water runs through and the filter wool is starting to build up some browney stuff.. i dunno if its algae or what?! hopefully nothing too scary. Lets hope the fishies last over the wkend!

[sharn]

dont worry bout the brown stuff, thats just dirt and stuff from the tank that your filter wool has got out give it a rinse in a bucket of tank water every month or so (or when needed, water changes make a good time to do this rinsing cause you can do it in the bucket that youve just put the old water into) and pop it back in, it lasts for a few washes

[Caryl]

The brown stuff shows the filter is working. It is supposed to do that. It will eventually go black if you don't clean it.

I guess the important thing to do is ask lots of questions of many people (preferably fish keepers :lol: ) and read heaps then go with the majority. I too have had both good and bad advice from shops but then I also try to educate myself before going in so I have a fair idea whether their information is likely to be correct or not.

Both books and the Net also have incorrect information at times so you will also learn by your mistakes, and hopefully not kill any fish in the process.

[Fishkeepa]

Most proper books (in the adult section) at least tell you about tank maturation and setting up a nitrogen cycle but i guess it depends, those keeping goldfish books in the kids section are useless - no wonder lots of fishies die. But i agree with Caryl we all do make mistakes and we just gotta learn from them.

[Caper]

It will eventually go black if you don't clean it.

What will :-?

As far as what works with fishies, this I've learned so far :-? :roll:

-what works for me...might not work for you (& vice versa)

-same kind of fishies, their behavior...could be the same as your fishies, could be TOTALLY different

-no matter what you do...fishies will die

-different people, different opinions...opinions are just that opinions

-if you want help...ask, but just like other things in life...might not be the answer you are looking for

The above is just MY OPINION on what I believe I have learned so far. There is one thing I know, if it wasn't for this site, info on the net...I would not be in this hobby because I would not have learned anything and most certainly would have had nothing but dead fish and a dead hobby!