slappers Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 today i have just started to use this product thanks to reef for throwing a few my way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Be interested to hear back in a few weeks how it goes Slappers. I think this and other bacterial supplements are the way of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 So whats the idea behing dosing these type things? Are you actually adding bacterial cultures? Or is it nutrients? Is this the idea behind the zeovit method? I get the adding diversity thing but how does bacterial diversity help coral colours - or is this a flow on effect from the better water parameters (due to a higher filtering capacity from the increased bacterial population)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Bio digest is a bacterial culture apparently designed to bilogically digest unused nutrients.. Re the name Bio digest. I have started also and have noticed increased water clarity within 48 hours, Impressed) Low nutrient tanks could benefit from vitamins, hence the use of coral trace and aminos. Im giving them a shot......see how they pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Do you keep them in the fridge? If it is a bacterial culture perhaps you could grow your own(might help keep costs down), I wonder what would happen on a bacterial "overdose"? I suppose a mass dieoff for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Not the bio digest.....Reef? amino's, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 OK well here we are getting into an area where there is disagreement, so just take this post as my opinion only, but I'll offer it. Yes, these are real live bacteria cultures. The debate is because one school of thought (correctly) assumes that if there is anything in the tank available to bacteria to use, sooner or later bacteria will turn up that use it, so why dose bacteria. The explanation I got from an overseas microbiologist who is also a reefer, is that a culture of many bacteria types, such as exist in a reef tank, are at war with each other, in many ways. There is competition for food, chemical warfare, direct attacks on each other, etc. All this can result in that the tank can move towards being colonised by a few dominant bacterial types, but not nessecarily the BEST types to achieve what we want. Therefore, dosing live cultures of selected bacteria can assist bacterial biodiversity and effect efficient nutrient reduction, thereby enhancing not just coral colour but also the health of the tank generally. I have heard only good reports from users of Prodibio, not one bad comment yet. And yes, a live bacterial culture is an important part of the Zeovit system, although there are other components to zeovit, including a bacterial food, and other things. The Zeovit bacterial culture is claimed to include several bacteria that will ensure that, in the manufacturers words, a "chain" of nutrient breakdown will be maintained, along with supplying coral food. However, every time I mention Zeovit an argument breaks out, I'm hoping that won't happen this time now the rules are being enforced, but doubt it. What I'll say is that while some doubt the manufactureres claims by not only Zeovit, but other bacterial systems as well, there is no proven reason to doubt the claims, and as a user myself I can say that in real life practise, the product has done exactly what it states it will do. UV and bacterial culture dosing should not be done on the same tank at the same time obviously, they are counterproductive to each other. Looks like some appear to be having success with UV, so a person could go with one, or the other. The Zeovit manual specifically states not to use UV while using Zeovit. Having said all that, now that bacterial dosing is coming more into vogue particularly on some of the more spectacular tanks, new brands and products of it are being released all the time. Stick to the proven brands, there is nothing to stop some cowboy selling any old bacteria as a reef product. Hope that's some use, my humble opinion only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Cheers wasp, I think I was too late in joining the site to see the infamous "zeowars". So I have read practically nothing on the subject. I think it must be said that I learned alot from both you and Layton through your dsb arguments. Have there been controlled experiments with these types of things? I would love to see, say for instance a zeo vrs non zeo tank, (as identical as possible) but unfortunately such tests are not done very often. Same with skimmer comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Is that a pic of a wasp, Wasp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I think it must be said that I learned alot from both you and Layton through your dsb arguments. :Yes actually one thing from these arguments it does make people ferret around and find a lot of info. Also ( surprise ) I do have more respect for iduncan than may be immediately apparent despite having different ideas on some topics. Have there been controlled experiments with these types of things? I would love to see, say for instance a zeo vrs non zeo tank, (as identical as possible) but unfortunately such tests are not done very often. Same with skimmer comparisons. The reality is it is nearly impossible to fairly conduct such a comparitive experiment as so many variables are involved. For this reason, even though "anecdotal evidence" is often frowned upon, if there is enough of it, I'm happy to use it. Much of what we now know in the hobby, started out as anecdotal evidence. Is that a pic of a wasp, Wasp?Yes! Cool Huh!! The only one of my avatars not in my tank :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 A BIT OF READING BIO DIGEST is composed with nitrifying and dénitrifying bacterial strains selected for their capacity to transform the ammonia into nitrites, the nitrites into nitrates and nitrates into nitrogen. They are guaranteed free from genetic mutations. Bacterial selection The work of the different bacterial strains is controlled by the genetic information included in the DNA of each cell. Strains are chosen for their efficiency and their compatibility in fresh and marine water. Each strain starts a process which is continued by another strain until the toxic nitrogen compounds (ammonia and nitrite) are broken down into harmless nitrate. The way BIO DIGEST work. The biological filtration is rapidly set up by nitrifying bacteria : - Nitrosomonas europea - Nitrobacter winogradskyi This set-up and maintain biological filtration better than randomly or bacterial fights. These bacteria convert : AMMONIUM >>> NITRITES NITRITES >>>>> NITRATES The cleaning by the organic waste digestion is favored by the presence of 9 strains, in optimal proportions, of hétérotrophics bacteria including - Paracoccus dénitrificans - Pseudomonas stuzerii These digest organic matter ( plant and fish wastes) more rapidly than nitrifying micro-organisms (INRA 1995) and contribute to aquarium cleaning including nitrate removal Nitrates >>> Nitrogen In under-oxygenated areas in aquariums.These bacteria work in team; each strain ending the work begun by another. Some are capable to synthesize the dénitrifying enzymes in aérobic. It insure thus the purification, the reduction of nitrates, phosphates and prevent the growth of algae. They avoid equally by the food competition the proliferation of pathogenics organisms and decrease thus the unexplained sickness risk. BIO DIGEST is a high biotechnology product with an extreme concentration. This allows its presentation in AMPOULE under Nitrogen 20 billion bacteria by bulbs and a very long conservation isolated of the oxygen by avoiding thus bacterial product disadvantages in bottle which degrade as soon as you open them or freeze-dried bacteria which remain dormant. This presentation is very economic because 100% the product is efficient whenever needed. What makes BIO DIGEST different - 5 Good reasons for getting it right - 20 billion bacteria per ampoule - One major benefit - Long life - 100% effective whenever needed - The end of freeze-dried bacteria which remain dormant - he end of bacteria in flasks which degrade as soon as you open them BIO DIGEST IS THE EFFECTIVE REFLE Its benefits - Packed for long life - Fights every form of pollution - Economic: The product is 100% effective whenever used - Simple, accurate pre-measuring : self-braking ampoules - Easy to use, instructions in the box - Strong, crush proof packaging In aquaculture: Increase of the food conversion of 30% ( weight of food/weight of fish produces). The ammonia and the phosphorus have been used for the multiplication of bacteria This BIO MASSS is transformed then, by the small invertebrates, in natural food. In aquarium and aquaculture: the regular utilization of BIO DIGEST all 15 days to 1ppm : 1 amp until 1,000 liters gives the next results : > Rapid biological filtration start up and introduction of fish > Reduction of nitrates > Reduction of phosphates > Reduction of algae > biological Cleaning of the aquarium by the organic waste digestion > optimal proportion Conservation and bacterial strains renewal > Improvement of the quality of the water > unexplained sickness Reduction Instruction for use : Aquarium start up > - Rapid set-up for nitrification and biological balance. 1 ampoule per 60 litres 1 ampoule for the filter Nitrite surges Adding fish. > - Adjustment of nitrification activity. After bactericidal treatment > - After elimination of treatment products, to boost biological filtration. Dirty aquarium Proliferation of algae. > - Reduction of algae and cleaning by digestion of food, organic sludge and nitrate reduction. 1 ampoule up to 1.000 litres every 15 days Red algae in sea water > - To rebalance Nitrates /Phosphates ratios. Inexplicable diseases > - Reduction of stress and pathogenic micro-organisms. Regular maintenance > - To conserve and optimise ratios between the useful strains of bacteria. Why all 15 days ? BIO DIGEST is particularly efficient the 2 weeks that follow its application. Bacterial multiplication speeds, different according to strains, allow to preserve these optimal purification proportions 15 days. If one wants to accelerate the process of purification it is not necessary to overdose but to near utilizations. Each week for example. Aquarium starting up : 1 ampoule per 60 litres + 1 ampoule for the filter. Aquarium purifier : 1 ampoule up to 1.000 litres every 15 days. Strongly shake each ampoule for 15 seconds to ensure that the bacteria in the points are included in the solution. Dilute with 1 litre of aquarium water before pouring the mixture into the aquarium and the filter. The purifying action of BIO DIGEST is strengthened by the association with BIO TRACE. Keep away from children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 They are guaranteed free from genetic mutations yeah, coz how would ya tell.... Keep away from children dont want your children genetically mutating now do we sounds like a very interesting product, keep us up-to-date on how things go. wouldnt mind trying it if the results are promising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Yeah I was surprised with that genetic mutation coment aswell. (not that it would have much effect on the product anyway) For E. coli this works out to be between 0.000001 and 0.0000001 mutations per gene per generation E. coli has 4,377 genes. So every division has a 0.4377% chance of mutating, and there are a heck of a lot of divisions going on. It stuck me as a weird/dangerous gaurentee to make. Slappers got any pics of how your tanks going? Might be good for a before /after comparison. (And I want to see your tank ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 thats a good idea i will put one up soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Where do you buy this wonder drug and how much does it cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 got mine of reef (Alois) but try your LFS cant give you a price sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Where do you buy this wonder drug and how much does it cost PM me for a price its part of the Prodibo range /Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Good research Slappers! Ever considered a job in marketing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 been booted out of bed to aye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Me? Not this time! Still at work, having a little break . You? 3.30, out in the cold! Bummer! Thought you wore the pants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 hey Bruce when running Bio Digest should i turn my charcoal fluidizer off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 I havent used carbon since I started prodibio products 8 weeks ago, my water is very clear, 0 nitrate, 0.2 phosphates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 so you put it in weekly or every fifteen days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted April 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 OK sorry about the photos will try to do better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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