Feelers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Fish_nemo is reefman, who has just joined us here . It does look cruel, I think he was just asking out of intrest. Wasp can this be done with feeding and water changes just as easily as they say? I'm not worried about the pain thing, just interested. If I remember correctly there are 5 pie sections in a anemone, each cabable of regrowing, so that begs the question - perhaps it is possible to cut say a small slice out and leave the big one whole. Cutting it would be the problem - a scalpel would be useful. I think maybe even a 5-way split it has been done sucessfully. Obviously increased stress/smaller peices would play more of a part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 If I remember correctly there are 5 pie sections in a anemone, each cabable of regrowing, so that begs the question - perhaps it is possible to cut say a small slice out and leave the big one whole. Cutting it would be the problem - a scalpel would be useful. I think maybe even a 5-way split it has been done sucessfully. Obviously increased stress/smaller peices would play more of a part. Very interesting Feelers. As you have a much better understanding of the science involved, what is your opinion as to the possible success of cutting other hosting anemone species, than BTA's? I've often heard it can't be done, but never heard of it actually being tried. Wasp can this be done with feeding and water changes just as easily as they say? I'm not worried about the pain thing, just interested. It can be done that way, although perhaps not quite as readily as suggested. BTA's that are heavily fed will sometimes eventually split, but sometimes not. They also split as a stress response, sometimes after some kind of tank disaster that nearly killed them, or being put in a new tank, or being injured, they will split. The theory is that in the wild if there is some disaster, but they survive, they will then split, to ensure survival of the species. So heavy feeding, followed by a big waterchange or some other stress event, can stimulate a split, but it's not guaranteed. It should also be realised that many naturally occuring splits in aquaria, are followed later by the death of one or both halves. A search of RC will find many threads by dissapointed reefers who have lost one or both following a natural split. Why the deaths I don't know although I would suspect the same old problem, infection. However, I think the way I'm doing it now is relatively risk free, the losses I have had were during the learning phase and I'm pretty sure I know where I went wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I'll see what I can dig up at uni tomorrow. I dont see how one anemone is so different from the other that it wouldnt work, ? I'll perhaps try on local species when my tanks up and running. This might be a cool one to try it on. Can you tell if this is photosynthectic? I'm geussing it is, are all the local ones photosynthectic too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Feelers - How old are you? Thus when life is good, spawning is on the cards. Just like in humans - in failing marriges sex life is generally on the low down. It is my experance that in a failing marige sex life is generally on the improve, the failing bit comes from your choice in partners, not in your ability to actually have sex. A humans desire to have sex for pleasure is quite different to the desire to reproduce as a matter of survival (although there will be many shrinks who will put a darwin spin on even a teenage boys sex drive). but for example clowns wont spawn in a poorly maintained tank Now I am not sure where you came up with this, you have gone off track. When exactly were we talking about healthy animals reproducing, we were talking about happy animals. You can be healthy and unhappy. You may not have sex when your unhealthy, but happiness and sex are little in common (more ammo for the shrinks). Now put it in context, we are talking about fish, 10 million years of evolution has prompted them to have sex to keep their species alive, do you think them being unhappy because they are stuck in a 1 foot long tank is going stop this? Do you really think that these animals, when put in poor conditions (our tanks in this example) think to themself "sorry honey I am not in the mood, I mean I just don't see the point if this is all there is too life, i think i'll give up". I mean really, do you? Feeler - Being frozen to death is cruel, crayfish, fish, cat, dog or human. You do slow down, no doubt, as the pain of your blood slowly crystalises etc. You don't have to be frozen (or a crayfish) to understand this concept. Nazis used to do experiments on people by freezing them, to see how cold and how long someone could be before they would die or could not be resusitated, tell those people its not such a bad way to go. Wasp - I too am strong supporter of captive propogation, and its not just talk, I put my money were my mouth is and happily pay a premium for captive bred/cultivated livestock. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 This might be a cool one to try it on. Can you tell if this is photosynthectic? I'm geussing it is, are all the local ones photosynthectic too? Not sure about that one, is it a beadlet? However most of our native ones are non photosynthetic, meaning they have to be heavily fed in comparison with the clown hosting anemones. Also the native ones, or at least the ones I used to have, reproduce differently, by a hole opening in their side, and spurting a whole lot of tiny baby ones out. Would be interesting to see if they would survive being cut. Wasp - I too am strong supporter of captive propogation, and its not just talk, I put my money were my mouth is and happily pay a premium for captive bred/cultivated livestock.Pie You've hit the nail on the head there Pies, it's often about money. Most people will support eco friendly ways, provided it does not hit them in the pocket. With the higher cost of getting corals into NZ, that leaves scope for some to be propagated economically, certainly BTA anemones can be propagated cost efficiently in NZ, but in many foreign countries with lower importation costs the only way captive propagation of corals can be done is on the basis that the customer will have the good will to pay more for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 It is my experance that in a failing marige sex life is generally on the improve what are you trying to tell us here pies? you gotta mistress? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 what are you trying to tell us here pies? you gotta mistress? :lol: thats a very small minded thing to say, after all someone with a tank the size of Pies is bound to have more than one :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Boy...you guys can sure make a thread interesting...from splitting an anemone... to marriage...sex life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I'd have to go along with Pies, the sex dies in a marriage and blossoms else where. About reproduction in hard times? What about the African and other countries that are having famines etc. Also to be noted are the population on a lower socio-economy. Many more there isn't there?? The only thing that seems to carry on is the reproduction. But it is interesting to see this way of propagating the anenomes. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Feelers - How old are you? 20 About people reproducing hugely in Africa, there is an effect that causes a mother to go into "full production", if her first child dies. I cant remember what it's called, but it's a well documented environmental trigger to start reproducing quickly. This effect is what's responsible for the "baby booming" that happens after a war. "sorry honey I am not in the mood, I mean I just don't see the point if this is all there is too life, i think i'll give up" I'm saying that there is no point in reproducing if it lowers the parents chances of surviving, and ends up with dead/low chance for eggs. The resources are better spent when conditions change for the better. This is why many clowns eat their own eggs - if conditions arent perfect. Clown fry have a very low chance of survival, so it is much better to have the parents survive to make many more batches of eggs, than die for just a single batch. Do clowns spawn in poorly maintained tanks? (Now) I'm not so sure, but I wouldnt think they would? Never imagined that I'd be posting this, :lol: Apart from simply getting bored with sex, or losing the habit of making love, many practical factors can affect your feelings: * illness * stress * over-tiredness f you can identify with any of these, you will need to tackle the root cause before you can work on improving your sex life. Counsellors often find that lack of sexual desire stems from a basic dissatisfaction within a couple’s relationship. Common problems include: * drifting apart and losing touch * feeling taken for granted or neglected * frequent arguments, nagging * problems such as money worries, family conflict, work-related stress affairs Problems like these need working through, since only when you feel better about your relationship is there a chance of your sex life improving. The reason sex is fun is because it increases our survival. It it was a drag, there'd be a lot less people in the world. However sex life is one of the things that goes when stress is introduced. Reproduction generally thought of as an indicator of good health and "happyness" in animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Is that a Dr Phil quote? I will bring Opra in if I have too... Again i've missed your point. You have said that they will reproduce when they are happy, this is what started things off. I am saying, that its complete rubbish, they will reproduce as a survival mechnisim. Happyness has 0 to do with it. Back on track. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I never thought of doing that to anenomes and I use to cut up everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I've had a read through a big list of Q's and A's on anemones with that Bob Fenner guy. A temperature spike to 88 for a few hours is how one person had them split, alhtough this obviously isnt practical in a community tank. He also very briefly indicated that cutting out of a small peice is possible, with a razor blade ect - going from the top to the foot, and deeply cutting towards the middle. And a cool time lapse thingy of a split on progress.... http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002- ... /index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I tried all the tricks to get mine to split. all it did was grow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Not all the tricks.... The knife is still an option... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 drop your kH to 4, that seemed to trigger mine to split :lol: steve - speaking of growth, after viewing pic's of my tank in july last year and now, my clam has tripled in size in 8 months! it hardly fits the front of my tank, will put some pic's up to show tonight, quite a substantial size in a (relatively) short period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 my clam has tripled in size in 8 months T. Gigas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 drop your kH to 4, that seemed to trigger mine to split Thats an interesting point, I wonder what the split rate is like in a reef in spring when the algae goes nuts and softens the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thats an interesting point, I wonder what the split rate is like in a reef in spring when the algae goes nuts and softens the water no idea but thats the only major difference i could see in my tank around the time it split? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I found a really good book "A functional Biology of Sea Anemones", quite a bit to read through. One thing of interest - in some anemones if a severed arm is accidentally eaten - it can begin to bud inside. Perhaps you could try cutting off an arm and placing it inside the mouth? Large anemones may not split because of mechanical problems doing so. Unfortunately this book seems heavily based on coldwater species, so I cant find specifics. Sorry just paraphrasing.... experiments show that food deprivation stimulates fission. Fission seems timed to allow non feeding anemones to regenerate during a period of minimal resources, and so prepare them to exploit abundant resources during the next growth season. In other species decreasing food lowers the chance of fission, given that feeding isnt seasonal, but more constant in its' normal environment. There is a graph showing the amount of fission, and there is a very clear optimal point - based on temperature. A difference of +- 5C can quadrouple the speed that splitting occurrs. Exposure to air doesnt seem to be very useful in getting a split. The overall picture I get from the book is that it's quite different between species depending on where they live. Another thing it points out is that pointing a power head at them also counts as extra feeding, combined with increased lacerations , which may be good at getting a split. SO............ suggestions to try -(in no particular order) , 1.feeding heaps then feeding nothing. 2.Feeding nothing then feeding heaps. 3.Different temps (higher probably better). 4.Different flow exposure. 5.Mild Osmotic shock. 6.Mild dessication. 7. My favourite..... chopping off an arm and feeding it into the mouth:D Combinations are probably helpful. It's all very trial and error, I think if I had to suggest something based on the book, increased temp by say 2.5 to 5C degrees on the edge of its tolerances(obviously making sure its not just killing it). Perhaps with a powerhead pointing at it and some heavy feeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Oh and for a useless fact I found out today while reading through the books, This anemone can live for 50 years! Ill think I'll get one for my tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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