Richard Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 I just bought a small marine tank...will pick it up tomorrow... saw it advertised in the paper and wanted to give it a go... Shouldn't be too hard as the tank is already setup and has been going for quite a while... it has quite a lot of live rock inside already... the bed is made up of like crushed shells and stuff....dunno if it is live sand.... it is a 3 foot tank...with heater protein skimmer and this one has a wet /dry trickle filter as well... what i am wondering is...should i take the filter out when i get the tank? as i hear a lot of ppl talking about letting 'biology' do all the work... so i figure if this tank already has live rock and stuff in it... it should be ok if i take the filter out? any more tips i should know??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 Personally i would stay with the filter 'natural' systems in my opinion are for people on a budget. IMO u can never overskim or have too much biological filtration epecially if its a trickle filter, i say leave it be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 Couldn't agree less sorry Dogmatrix. I know someone with a $55,000.00 dollar Marine tank who only uses a protein skimmer. No budget contraints for him. Jane *my gf* has a 1600ltr marine tank at her work. No filter except a skimmer and live rock. I have set my own tank up (700ltr, 200ltr sump). I am only using a protein skimmer and some filter wool for 'diatom stop' on the tank drains. This was a design decision not a budget choice. I just don't want equipment that I don't need or that adds nothing. The trickle filter technology is OK. Many people use it with great success. You just don't need it if you are using lots of live rock. The worst thing about the trickle filter is you will need to clean and maintain it. You will NOT need to do this with you live rock. So drop the filter, if you think you need it you can always add it in later. But my Nitrites and Nitrates are both 0. My water is cristyal clear and my wild live is wild. 'More technology more biology' is the way with marines there days. The biggest decision is on weather to use a sand bed or not... Berlin vs Jabuert methods. I would reccomed dumping the trickle filter (if its built into the sump just use some rock insted of the bio balls). As for the sand. If its in the tank now it will be 'live sand'. I would also buy some crushed coral sand from somewhere like "Redwood Aquatics" in chch. Use the new sand for the base and 'dust' the top with your 'live sand'. The sand bed depletes over time and needs 'topping up' with new sand. The sand acts as a calcium and ph buffer. ALSO a good investment is building a 'reef rack'. Basicall just a plastic tray or box to put the live rock on. This allows for better circulation around the rock (making more bacteria) and stops dead spots in the sand bed. Put a spray bar or something under it. Anyway good luck with the marines. If you want to call to ask questions, 021 455 946 ask for mark. I am not an expert, but I am very well read and researched and have some thoughts to share if your interest (+ always good to know people to trade coral etc with!). I can think of a million mistakes i've made. But 99% of the advice I got was excellent and has saved me quite a lot. Also one thing to remember about a marine tank is that typically the most expenive option is the best one. So when you do your first shop get some activated carbon, and some Phosphate remover/killer. Are you going to use KALKWASSER? Are you going to use Natural Sea water? Do you have access to RO water or DI water? Cheers & goodluck! Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2003 Thanks for the replies... I think the sand in my tank is crushed coral sand... cos it is just like crushed shells...so might not be live sand... I am just a beginner in marine so I do not know much... I will be taking the filter out.... and let the live rock do all the work...since there is quite a lot of it...and the tank is not that big.... At the moment I have the water at about 25 degrees? Is that the ideal temp? What is Kalkwasser? And what is RO / DI water? Will probably use natural seawater... will try it out if it is too much hassle will then use normal water and add the salt stuff.... What else do i need to know.... I guess I will need a power head in there to circulate the water more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 11, 2003 Report Share Posted May 11, 2003 Live sand is just a name given to sand that has little bugs etc in it. If its in the tank and the tank is healthy then it is 'live sand'. Just remember that you can't get live sand made of silicate, so buy your crushed coral don't get it from the beach 25 deg is spot on. I run mine at 24-25. Remember to cycle the tank. This will tankes months, but will be shortened by live rock & sand. Go to the local rock pools and get some snails and some hermit crabs. There work the sandbed and the rock, speed up the cycle process and clean up algae and waste! So they are all good. Get maybee 10-15 crabs and the same in snails. I only know one person who uses salt mix over natural sea water. Just remember to get it somewhere clean and free of man made poultants. EVAPORATION is a killer for the un-suspecting marine aquarist. Get a refractometer or a hydromenter (cheaper less accurate) to measure the salt content. Should be no higher than .026 with .021 - .024 being spot on. If you do evaporate water you will need to top up with FRESH WATER not salt. And this should be RO/DI water. You can use tap water/rainwater but it will contain minerals etc that will feed algae. Be careful there. Are you planing on keeping coral (thus turning it into a reef) or jsut fish? If you want coral best save up for some SUPER lighting etc. You can go fish only and add coral later once you are ready for the added expense that reefkeeping brings. Last note on cirulation. Get as many power heads as you can afford and put them in. Or use pumps in a 'closed loop' configuration (this is better I think, cheaper in the long run and less 'obvious' in the tank. Some people look at turning over the volume of their tank 30+ times an hour. So if you have a 200ltr tank you woul be looking at 6000ltrs of circulation. Live rock filtration mauy suffer without high circulation (at least 5x). Good luck Pies Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2003 The tank is pretty much cycled as it has been running for more than a year at the guys house... what i did was basically syphon all the water into a few containers and transport them all to my house and fill the tank back up...so the tank should be OK i think.... will test the water to make sure... Bought a hydrometer today as well...will keep an eye on it... I am thinking to keep coral... dont see much available in shops though... i also like the clams and the anenomes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 11, 2003 Report Share Posted May 11, 2003 Yeah clams, anenomes, coral its all good You are spoilt in Chrischurch for choice! Compared to here anyway. Good luck with it. Remember to keep coral you need a little more technology (read money) to keep em alive. Its not like growing plants in freshwater, they are VERY delecate. Get into those hermit crabs. Don't add coral until you see coraline algae grow (its pink/red). If you have conditions to grow the corline algae, you can grow coral (rough rule of thumb). Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 ok...going to get the power head tomorrow...gonna get a 1500 l/hr one... will then get rid of the filter.... should i just take the whole filter in one go? Or should i slowly take away the media in the filter layer by layer to let the tank get used to it? I also have to start killing some anenomes in my tank... there are some of those nasty ones with long tentacles... some ppl told me they spread really quick and are bad news.... so i will get rid of them tonight.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 I personally would do it slowly but in all honesty it shouldn't really matter. Maybee you should leave it on for now, cause you will want to add somerock as a replacement for the bio-balls or whatever media is loaded in thetrickle. Anenome problem. These anenomesare called Aipstasia. And rightly you need to get rid of them. But its really hard work. If you cut or pull them off they will regenerate into 1or more new ones. also any bits that endup floating around will attach to the glass orrock and grow new too. There are only a few options to kill them. The first is with fish likeCopperband Butterflys... Notthe answer for you though. The other is with a Kalkwasser paste. Inject the paste with a syringe right into the stalk through its mouth. The Kalkwasser needs to be thick and concentrated. Also don'tdo more than afew a day acause of PH issues with the Kalk. I don't think you have Kalkwasser so you can use HOT HOT water. Use a Terkey baster or a syringe. Take the rock out, cook the anemone, scrub off whats left with a toothbrush and some running fresh water. Then replace the rock into the tank. I know it seemsextreme but they are hardwork. I am in theprocess of sourcing a Copperband for my own Aipstasa problem. I am gettingboredof killing them, and they keep commingback! Eat em out I rekkon! Good luck. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Justed cooked a few of them last night... hope they don't grow back... they are clever suckers eh... whenever i get close to them with the syringe...they retract a bit and try shrink and hide... I will be getting a 1500l/hr powerhead today and slowly take the filter out... will put the filter in my freshwater tank... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Nice work Yeah I have zillions of them at the moment, my tank is 700ltr and therer is over 120kg of live rock in there, so heaps of places for them to hide. Aipstasia is just one of those things... Trickle filters are EXCELLENT in freshwater, a much better place for it. Do you have any fish in you tank yet? I STRONGLY suggest adding some hermit crabs and snails. lots. They will eat waste and algae, work the sand bed and generally help with the health of the ecosystem. You need LOTS of circulation for the marines. In my tank I have 1x 5000ltr return, 1x 3200ltr closed loop on a SCWD, 2x 1250ltr closed loops and a 400ltr powerhead, + overflows. And would like a little more water turnover, but more likley to use a 2nd return pump to work the overflows. (increases waterflow kinda). See above post on getting some phosphate remover too. Well worth it, algae can be a pain. I would also recomend getting some calcium and some Kalk. If you want a book, I STRONGLY reccomend "Natural Coral Reef Aquirum" or 'Corals' by Bourneman. Excellent and uptodate reference. Also www.reefcentral.com seems to be the best site bar none, but I also read all of www.thereefweb.com which was very helpful too. Good luck and cook those Aipstasia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 got the pump... you dont actually connect the tube that gets oxygen do you? tried it and the pump squirted lots of air bubbles as well.... i think that is more for a freshwater tank? so i took the tube off... am i correct? where does oxygen come from in a marine tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 By pushing air through the tube (called a venturi I think, or Venturi my be one that 'sucks' all by itsself) you can airate the water more. Saltwater get its oxygen from gas exchange at the surface. This is the same as freshwater (although plants also release oxygen). All the bubbles are for is to create a current and force water to the surface where gas exchange happens. I have a 400ltr freshwater tank with no airstone. So the bubbles give oxygen is myth is not exactly true. I wouldn't bother with the air intake on your powerhead, the small bubbles in saltwater look aweful and 'stick' to everything. They also make the normally cristal clear water look murky. Hope this clears it up. Remeber you can't have too much waterflow. Ohhh and get some hermit crabs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 thanks... so where do i get hermit crabs? just from the beaches? will they live in the warmer water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Rock pools. Water in Auckland is a LOT warmer than here in Wellington. I got 5 from here about 4 weeks ago, all are still alive and kicking. I have heard mixed things. Just keep an eye and count them as often as you can. Even if one dies its not the end of the world, as long as lots don't die at the same time! And they are very cool to watch! I also got 4 shrimps from the rockpools. 1 is still alive, the other 3 got skimmed! They are quite pretty, with red candy striped legs, and yellow tails etc. Worth checking out too for a 'freebie'. And snails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 rock pools? so i would have to go somewhere like Hanmer Springs or Muiria (spelling?) Springs ??? hmmm... would be hard to find them wouldn't it? and hard to catch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 I would have thought the somewhere around brighton would be closer? Anywhere near the sea where there is rocks, there are rock pools. The pools are covered in snails and hermit crabs. You have to work a bit harder to find the hermit crabs but there are millions of them, same as shrimp. Take a ice cream container or 2, and a net (ALL PLASTIC!). They are easy to spot, easy to catch. I net is req for the shrimp if you want them. If you can find any I can sell you some of my special hermits! :> Cheap but exceptional value! Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 can they survive the 25 degrees in the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 As I said in my previous replys, so far so good for me. They may die, they may not. I have 6, so far they are all alive and behaiving. I am going to add another 20+. I only have 1 snail left, but I know that a crab ate 4, which means there is 1 un accounted for. Sure the water is warmer, but they seem to do fine, mine are happy as could be. Even my shrimp is happy and swims up to me when I walk past! I am going to cath as many shrimps as I can next time, if that means 50. Excellent! I am sure that they do no harm, and my fish will eat them (when I get more fish I mean). Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 i will try and go look for some around chch... but i dunno if i will be able to find any... water down here is a lot colder as well... so they might not survive that well...no harm trying though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 We had a coldwater rock pool aquarium set up and it attracted a lot of attention. We could not keep it cool enough in summer though as the room temp sat around 25C - 28C and this was too warm. They actually prefer up to 15C only. We got our crabs, fish, anemones and shrimps etc from the rock pools down the Kaikoura coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Yeah there is always some debate about water temprature and the creatures. From personal experance so far, my stuff is surviving. As for the water being colder down there in Chch not sure about that. Water from the south coast here (Cook Stright) drops to 7 degrees. I colleced in 10-11 deg. So I don't think there would be much difference. Try em out. They cost nothing and the hermit crabs eat algae which is excellent, and they climb everywhere except the glass (hence the need for snails). Might go get some shrimp today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newkiwi Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 I agree on the shrimp. They are great fun, excellent scavengers and survive better than hermits. At least mine did. A bunch collected from Tauranga have done very well. Hermits did not thrive, although a few are left 4 months later. Mussels collected from the rocks also did not do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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