lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 well we all agree that large levels of iron can cause unwanted algae growth since it acts as a fertiliser, but on the same hand at the right levels it can bring out colours in corals. so the idea is largely to get a balance right? how do you know zeovit zeolite is not tested for a maximum 'leach factor?' Bingo! Determining a maximum leach factor would be difficult considering the process can be abrasive, disassociative and bacteria based. So the leaching is going to be dependent on a wide variety of variables, many of which you don't have control over. layton, what im confused at is you've said testing for levels of iron is not going to tell you much because of the iron uptake by animals etc,... but thats after you quote habib and others testing zeovit and stating these "elevated" iron levels as "facts". Depends what you are actually measuring. Habbibs testing method essentially measured chemical disassociation. The Serbella test measured the iron lost from the zeolite rocks themselves. The iron does not have to be directly dissolved in the water to be bioavailable. these "facts" contradict your iron testing theory. if an iron test is performed, surely thats going to give a good "rough" indication of iron levels in zeovit vs non-zeovit tanks? but then at what levels are considered 'elevated' - what is the level of iron that is considered detrimental to your tank? It won't necessarily indicate anything. Think of it this way. Bacteria grab ammonia so fast in a tank, that you can't measure any significant ammonia in the water. Now a tank with 10 tangs producing ammonia has a much higher input of ammonia than a tank with a couple of chromis, yet measuring both tanks may show undetectable ammonia levels. You can't determine how much ammonia is being put into the system based on the water levels alone. Similar thing with iron, you have both phyto and bacteria grabbing it. So total bioavailable iron is not necessarily related to dissolved iron. i maybe able to get saltwater tested for levels of iron - if this is going to help...?? confused. Testing water won't help. You don't have the ability to measure how much iron is bioavailable, so the only feedback you have is when there is enough iron present to cause problems. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 It's wasps logic don't you get it? Brown corals are bad. Layton Actually I was just showing you the flaw in your own logic. As for me, I got no problem at all with a brown coral if it's meant to be brown. I suspect the questions you have asked me are just more fudging, to avoid saying anything concrete about your iron theory. Nevertheless I'm happy to answer your questions, but to do them justice I first need to know where you are coming from. Please explain to me your iron theory. I know there must be more to it than what you have stated so far "elevated iron levels can cause corals to bleach" It's an 8 word statement, and one I would agree with. I don't believe you have spent the last 6 months argueing just over that surely? There must be more. Please tell the rest of your theory. I can't be bothered if you will not tell me what your point is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Actually I was just showing you the flaw in your own logic. As for me, I got no problem at all with a brown coral if it's meant to be brown. So you finally see the flaw in YOUR conclusion that brown = bad, is that some corals are just brown to begin with. I suspect the questions you have asked me are just more fudging, to avoid saying anything concrete about your iron theory. Nevertheless I'm happy to answer your questions, but to do them justice I first need to know where you are coming from. Please explain to me your iron theory. I know there must be more to it than what you have stated so far "elevated iron levels can cause corals to bleach" It's an 8 word statement, and one I would agree with. I don't believe you have spent the last 6 months argueing just over that surely? There must be more. Please tell the rest of your theory. I can't be bothered if you will not tell me what your point is. I just wanted to know how you explain those observations? Can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Can you two just start your own thread? so we can ignore it? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 lets play a game of how many smilies can we get on one page... :D eh,... alot more than this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I'll play :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 hahahaaaa!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 The worst thing is thats about the most constructive thing posted in this thread since it started. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think it makes my head hurt about as much too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I just wanted to know how you explain those observations? Can you? As I've already stated, I'm happy to answer your questions. But you must first tell me your point. If you don't have one I can't be bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 i maybe able to get saltwater tested for levels of iron - if this is going to help...?? Layton if Chimera can do this on a zeovit tank would that help you put this crap to rest? If so I'll assist in whatever way I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 As I've already stated, I'm happy to answer your questions. But you must first tell me your point. If you don't have one I can't be bothered. How does your answer to those questions change based on a theory I have? I'm stepping you through how the theory comes about, and why. So, if you answer those questions, you might get a better picture of where i'm coming from. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 when's the wedding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think we may need to stage an intervention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 More fudge. I don't need to be "stepped through it" Just say what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Layton if Chimera can do this on a zeovit tank would that help you put this crap to rest? If so I'll assist in whatever way I can. Did you not read my response to that? Go back and read it. If you think any of this is crap, tell me which part in particular and why? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 More fudge. I don't need to be "stepped through it" Clearly you do. So if anything, just humour me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Yes I'm afraid some of what you said on that subject was, in fact, crap. Only since you asked. However this is a never ending argument because you will not say what your point is. What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Clearly you do. So if anything, just humour me. Layton posts like that are just argueing for the sake of it. What is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 What is your point? he's just googling his answer... i'd like to hear it in plain english as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 can you answer these questions wasp? Why do corals show signs of colouring up despite indicators that the tank is still high nutrients? Why is tissue loss, which sometimes occurs, due to a fast reduction in nutrients? When clearly the rate at which particular nutrients are dropped is much much slower that what occurs when you perform a water change. Any evidence for this being the case? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Yes. But you are fudging again. What is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 he's just googling his answer... Now there's a novel idea. Actually researching information on a topic before arguing about it. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Yes. But you are fudging again. What is your point? And the answers are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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