salt mix

[lduncan]

According to what Layton said a while back, testing for iron is very difficult / expensive.

Yes

In fact it has never been done on a zeovit tank, meaning Laytons iron theory is still a theory not a fact.

That's what the Lars Sebrella test did. A zeovit tank. They measured the concentration of iron in the solid zeolite BEFORE using it using using spectroscopy, then measured it again at the end of 48 days of using it in a tank. They found the concentration of iron had dropped significantly. Therefore it must have been leaching into the tank by whatever mechanism.

Well, Ummm... Actually, you did.

So what part did I make up?

1. Where has it ever been demonstrated the water in a zeovit tank contains more iron?

The iron levels in water have little to do with how much iron is being put into the system. Think of it like ammonia, there is a lot of ammonia being processed in a tank, but water levels of ammonia are undetectable.

2. Where are these many zeovit tanks you have seen that have colourful corals, cyano and lots of high nutrient algae all over the rocks?

I'm getting to that, just be patient, i've got three different replies to this thread on the go at the moment.

[wasp]

Well I don't know what's in your Tunze zeolite Reef, but diatoms are silicate limited.

And Layton I'd still like to see you answer those 2 questions. Could save a lot of hyperventilating

[lduncan]

Where are these many zeovit tanks with colourful corals, cyano, and algae all over the rocks?

I'd like to see them.

[lduncan]

And Layton I'd still like to see you answer those 2 questions. Could save a lot of hyperventilating

I'm still waiting for your apology on that thread too.

[chimera]

:lol: :roll: :-? :oops: 8)

so was the cyano there before or after zeovit? had a water change been done and did the user stick to the recommended dosing? i can show you lots of tanks that dont use zeovit but have cyano so what does that prove?

[wasp]

That's what the Lars Sebrella test did. A zeovit tank. They measured the concentration of iron in the solid zeolite BEFORE using it using using spectroscopy, then measured it again at the end of 48 days of using it in a tank. They found the concentration of iron had dropped significantly. Therefore it must have been leaching into the tank by whatever mechanism.

Is that the best you can do? As has been previously explained to you on numerous occasions, that test was done years ago on a different zeolite than is used today.

And even then the iron released was not shown to translate into any kind of significantly higher iron content in the water.

Your iron theory is a theory, not a fact.

[wasp]

In those pics, I don't exactly see rocks covered in high nutrient type algae.

And what appears to be cyano, is in fact a bacterial film that may include cyanobacteria, which used to be caused by an overdose of the old type of zeostart.

In fact I'd be fairly confident that the phosphate level in that tank would be smaller than 0.05. A low nutrient tank by most generally accepted definitions.

You claimed to have seen "many" zeovit tanks covered in algae and cyano. Where are they?

[chimera]

i have little doubt that there is some form of iron supplement in zeovit (in fact, dont zeovit also offer an iron supplement as a separate product?) to what level its dosed though is the question. im sure we've all learnt by now iron does increase algae growth, but it also effects the green colour formation of corals. however overdosing on iron leads to darkening of tissue - after running zeovit, i've only noticed lighter more colourful tissue? so does zeovit add massive portions of iron to the detriment of a tank or smaller portions to aid in the colouration of sps corals?

btw, iron occurs naturally in seawater at 0.0034ppm.

[lduncan]

Is that the best you can do? As has been previously explained to you on numerous occasions, that test was done years ago on a different zeolite than is used today.

And even then the iron released was not shown to translate into any kind of significantly higher iron content in the water.

Your iron theory is a theory, not a fact.

Clearly you don't have enough understanding of science, or even maths to understand why releasing iron does not necessarily have to correspond to higher iron content in the water.

Just because you keep asking the same questions it doesn't mean they haven't been answered.

[wasp]

(in fact, dont zeovit also offer an iron supplement as a separate product?)

Correct. Zeovit sell an iron supplement that can be dosed. It is used to help the corals darken a bit if they are pale, and also to assist growth.

Now Layton claims that zeovit releases so much iron that it causes the corals to expell zooxanthellae, and thereby lighten and reveal their hidden colours.

But that is clearly wrong because if that were the case, dosing even more iron as a supplement would increase zooxanthellae expulsion even more.

But in fact supplementing iron helps darken the corals by assisting zooxanthellae growth, the opposite to what Layton is claiming.

[lduncan]

:lol: :roll: :-? :oops: 8)

so was the cyano there before or after zeovit? had a water change been done and did the user stick to the recommended dosing? i can show you lots of tanks that dont use zeovit but have cyano so what does that prove?

Some of those pics are from G Alexander, who has been using zeovit for years, and other are from someone who have been using it for more than a year.

Also, phosphate is not the only nutrient around.

[lduncan]

Correct. Zeovit sell an iron supplement that can be dosed. It is used to help the corals darken a bit if they are pale, and also to assist growth.

Now Layton claims that zeovit releases so much iron that it causes the corals to expell zooxanthellae, and thereby lighten and reveal their hidden colours.

But that is clearly wrong because if that were the case, dosing even more iron as a supplement would increase zooxanthellae expulsion even more.

But in fact supplementing iron helps darken the corals by assisting zooxanthellae growth, the opposite to what Layton is claiming.

So, when did KZ start releasing their secret formulations to you?

[wasp]

Clearly you don't have enough understanding of science, or even maths to understand why releasing iron does not necessarily have to correspond to higher iron content in the water.

Thanks for the compliment

But your theory is that the high iron content in the water causes corals to expell their zooxanthellae.

Are you now retracting and saying it in fact - quote "does not necessarily have to correspond to higher iron content in the water"

Is that what you are saying now? A total about face I must say.

And I'm still just pointing out the iron content of the water in a zeovit tank has never been tested.

So yet again, your theory is not a fact.

[wasp]

Perhaps Layton it will be simpler if we just deal with one question at a time.

Where is the test done on water in a zeovit tank that shows iron content high enough to make corals expell their zooxanthellae?

[wasp]

I'm still waiting for your apology on that thread too.

Layton, I apologise.

After all these months I'm not even sure what your still so upset over.

But whatever it was, I'm really, truely, awefully, sorry!

[wasp]

So, when did KZ start releasing their secret formulations to you?

They didn't. Does that matter?

[wasp]

Whadayaknow!! Iron thread on Zeovit.com http://zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3892

[puttputt]

zeovit steals another thread....

[cookie extreme]

does any of you have the blue coral Heliopora coerulea? if so how does it grow in your tanks? i am asking this question because this coral is a bit unique in the fact that it strips water of available iron to form its very unique skelleton and colour. mine grows well but the sotft bubble tips disintegrate on a regular bases. is this common in other tanks?

now i use zeovit which suppose to release iron into my water as some people state why is it that the only coral that actively uses iron to form its skelleton doesn't explode in growth like most others corals?

the disintergation of the tips only happens every 8 months or so and doesn't seem to be in any relation to water changes, zeolite changes or light replacements. this phenomenon is also mentioned in The Modern Reef Aquarium by Svein & Fossa, but again with no explanation.

[reef]

My blue coral in huge, grows all up my glass

[chimera]

does any of you have the blue coral Heliopora coerulea? if so how does it grow in your tanks? i am asking this question because this coral is a bit unique in the fact that it strips water of available iron to form its very unique skelleton and colour. mine grows well but the sotft bubble tips disintegrate on a regular bases. is this common in other tanks?

yes, i mentioned this one a little while back in another zeovit thread mine is definately growing, i wouldnt say fast, perhaps at the same rate as my milli frag and certainly slower than my monti cap (although thats not hard!) I dont have any tips disintegrating though? perhaps this coral is going to be added to the zeovit guide shortly :lol:

[wasp]

I've got a blue coral also, never seen that tip disintegration thing Cookie.

[puttputt]

heres a better link to look at re salt mixes.....

http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://web.archive.org/web/20010303215133/www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/mar/features/1/default.asp

[chimera]

That is very interesting, it appears that by using ASW you are adding a SUBSTANTIAL higher level of trace elements than you would by using NSW.

Lets take, ohh say Iron for example (in micromoles per kilogram) NSW = 0.0001, ASW (instant ocean) = 0.24. You could be dosing substantially higher levels of iron than, hmmm, lets see, say Zeovit? :lol: Then again, take Seachem's salt, a whopping 7.7 mm/kg of iron, ouch!

[lduncan]

You could be dosing substantially higher levels of iron than, hmmm, lets see, say Zeovit? :lol:

According to Lars Sarbella, zeolite added 3.45 uM/Kg in 47 days.

Habib was confident that from his tests (which did not measure all of the iron added), that it added at least 0.345 uM/Kg, average per day during his test period.

Interesting what Aged Salt had to say about iron additions increasing growth of corals due to increased zooxanthellae density. From what i've read, the opposite happens. Increased zooxanthellae density can result in a drop in calcification rates.

Layton