Caper Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Hi all! How's Saturday going...considering I'm still on Friday :lol: Bought 4 neon tetras tonight. They looked fine until I put them in my tank. One just didn't seem right...got the magnifying glass... on his back near his tail fin, didn't look right...not like the others. Acting shy compared to the others. Then all of a sudden...he was behind my little rock thingy, and it was like he went on his side and was being...hmm...not sure how to describe it...ahh...like a gust of "wind" took him...lol Anyway, I CAN'T FIND HIM. I took my filter off...took out filters...ran water through the tube...stilll no fish. Although, I can't seem he fitting in there anyway. My son thought maybe my goldfish ate him...but I was trying to find him from the minute I saw what happened. My goldfish isn't that big...and the neon wasn't that small...could he still have possibly swallowed him in one gulp????? What should I do? Do I need to take everything out? Will this cause the other new fish alot of stress...I know if he is dead I have to get him out...but how long can I wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Certainly wouldn't start stripping your tank.. as it will (as you say).. stress the fish out. Also disturbing your filters won't be very helpful, so clean them only if you "have" to. Chances are it became a meal for the Goldie.. especially if it wasn't as active as the others. Goldies have faily big mouths when you consider the amount of pellets they can get in there and consume. Let things settle, and keep an eye out just in case. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Thanks Bill, This will be my first casualty Could my goldfish have eaten him whole? If he did, he did it in an instant. I should have watched more closely when the lady was taking them out of the tank. I feel really bad, I should have been more careful. I know I've talked about this before...but I had the other 3 tetras for 2 weeks now...and the goldfish doesn't seem to bother them...except at feeding time he gives a little chase...but nothing serious. I thought by getting more tetras they'd be safer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 They do lose their colour when they die and will be harder to see (I have noticed this to be particularly so with neons they sort of go silvery transparent almost).....even if he is still alive with your multi coloured stones he may be harder to spot. I would perhaps very gently move the rock you saw him hiding behind...he may be stressed and have slid underneath it to hide from the goldfish! I lost a favourite male guppy a couple of weeks ago...and KNOW he is dead but have not been able to find him at all. Whether he has decomposed to the extent of non-existance or been eaten I am unsure. I also lost a harlequin which had been half eaten by the time i found him. (ugh). Havent lost any fish for a few days now.....but one of my fighters has been seriously sulking for a few days now.....he is currently in a tank on his own to give him the chance to recover....despite the fact he does get lonely he had been getting very shy and timid....so i will give him a few days to come out of hiding before trying him again with the 'placid' fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Neons are great, nice & bright, small... I wouldn't have neons & goldies together. When Goldies get bigger they will eat anything that fits in there mouth. frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Caper How did the tank lift for the polystyrene go? Re the neon - every likelyhood the goldfish ate it either whilst it was swimming or when it died. Another reason in my opinion not to go mixing coldwater and tropical species. Can you not be persuaded to find a new home for Goldie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Hi Herefishiefishie...lol...and Pomereef! Regarding the missing neon...my goldfish must have eaten him...or else he became invisible! The goldfish wasn't bothering with the neons, but when the neon did his...swan dive thingy...I went to get the flashlight to see if I could see him better...I was only gone for a few seconds...Sam must have taken him in one gulp then. I don't get it though...as I said the goldfish isn't that big and the neon wasn't really small...as a matter of fact, he was a tad bigger than the black neons. I'm starting to get worried about having Sam in there. I do want to get one more tank...but I wanted to hold off till I had more experience. Plus, I was hoping if this works out...I'd get a bigger tank...not huge...but bigger with different kind of fish. As I have said, the goldfish doesn't seem to bother the neons...a little chase at feeding time...but then I don't watch them 24/7! So, is it a DEFINITE that he will be eating more. Oh...I got the styrofoam today...but I'm wondering if it is too thick...it's 1/2". If I use a level to check my tank, and it is actually level, do I still need it. Trying to hold off a bit...till I decide if I'm going to do anything about another tank yet. Plus I'm going to be painting my apartment and don't want anything else heavy to move :-? Shelley, How goes your battle? What would have eaten the harlequin? This neon was my first loss...OMG...I hate the sound of that..."first loss". Oh...I've been looking at pictures of people's tanks...WOW...some are pretty amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Do you want to risk the possibility of your tank cracking through a minute piece of grit you cannot see and doesnt affect the level of the tank? ... YES, you dont mind a flood and dead fish? Then dont put the styrofoam under the tank. NO, you want to protect your home and fish? Then put it under. Honestly Shelley, I know you are nervouse about doing it, but we have answered the question repeatedly for you now, and no matter how many "what ifs" you come back with the answer will be the same. A thing to bear in mind, which might make the significance sink in..... Glass is cut by scoring a barely visible line across the surface and applying a MILD amount of pressure, and PING, the glass breaks along the scored line. Imagine then a grain of grit under the tank and the HUGE pressure the weight of water in the tank created. If that happens, what you get? Wet carpet and dead fish. Choice is down to you now. Oh, and on the subject of the Goldfish and Neon - a fish itself doesnt have to be big to eat another. It all has to do with how wide it can open its mouth. In the marine world there is a fish called the dwarf or fuzzy lionfish. It gets no bigger (and somewhat smaller) than most goldfish. However, it can eat fish practically half its size if it wants to !!! Take Sammie back to the store and ask for a credit against other tropical fishwater fish that belong in the tank and are compatible with your other fish (before it eats another one). Good luck. You sound responsible and keen to learn. I know you are going to get really hooked and enjoy your newfound hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Thanks Pomereef, I will be putting the styrofoam under my tank...I do want to make a good home for my fish. I must have missed something, I thought the only purpose of the foam was to make sure tank was level. I'm sorry...I KNOW you all know what you are talking about...if I made it sound like I didn't trust what I was being told...I AM SOOOOOO SORRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Honestly Shelley, I know you are nervouse about doing it, but we have answered the question repeatedly for you now, and no matter how many "what ifs" you come back with the answer will be the same. whoa! not me! lol..... I have polystyrene under all of my tanks but yes Caper, Pomereef is right it isn't hard to do particularly for such a small tank....and you only have to do it once....or maybe more if you get more tanks Maybe Sam the goldfish could be donated (sniff...sad I know) to a kindy or something. Or perhaps the fish shop would consider swapping him for some more neons? Just a thought. No more losses here...yet...thanks Caper.... one of my fighters still looks a bit sulky but he ate well this morning all alone in his very own tank...the girlfriend next door is just about going nuts...she wants at him! lol but he isn't interested! serves her right for being such a tease. Just bundled up my two tanks that are going in for repairs...in the stationwagon tonight. It will be good to get them back...they could be away for over a week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Hey, no biggie - if you missed that point about the cracking i can understand why you would wonder about doing it. Its the cracking issue which is the most important factor. If a tank isnt level then at your size its not an issue - apart from seeing the water level at the top being untrue. Now, about that darned GOLDFISH, lol..... :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Perhaps Goldie could stay in the 10 litre tank...and you could get a new bigger tank for your tropicals :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 With a couple of friends to play with I hope ! (incidentally odd numbers are always best - from an aesthetic point of view and also if you believe in feng shui) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Honestly Shelley Yah, Shelley I noticed that too but knew he meant :lol: Hmmmm, must have had you on his mind Pomereef, I did misunderstand about the tank...I thought that if the tank was not level it could cause a crack...not all the stuff you told me :-? NOW POMEREEF...about Sam! :evil: .... :lol: I don't want to get rid of him...and Shelley, it would be sad. First fish and he's been through sooo much already, but with that said, I don't want him eating my other fish either. So, I will be keeping him...just have to decide on where to put him. See, I don't know anything yet about cichlids (spelled right?). But I was hoping my next tank would have them. Again though, wanted to wait till I had more experience...oh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Pomereef, What is feng shui? And when you say "odd" numbers, do you mean in total, or per species? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Caper - Its true, sorry, if the tank isnt level it could cause problems too because of the sideways pressure on the joints. It would have to be a fair amount of slant and a large tank though. Yes, I know what you mean about sammy. Get him a nice small tank to have a couple of goldfish friends to stay and keep him then. It wont be expensive. Then concentrate on the tropical community tank that you have started. Give yourself a fair while before embarking on another tank (other than Sammy's home). You need to be confident with running one properly for several months before a second one because you can find the maintenance starts to be a chore and then if you have too many you can end up giving it all up. Cichlids, hmm, can be quite specialised because of their ideal specific water requirements and behaviour issues. But dont let me put you off them because there are so many beautiful ones. With the right conditions they can be quite prolific breeders too - and that would be a wonderful thing for the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Caper - feng shui is something you best do a search on google or another internet search engine. It has to do with correct flow of energy and is an ancient art/belief of oriental countries. Odd numbers - referring to species, ie have 7 or 9 or 11 neons, when we are talking about fish which usually shoal together. But also in a "biotype" aquarium - such as a goldfish tank or a cichlid tank - it means total number of fish. Thus it is believed better to have 3 or 5 or 7 goldfish or cichlids. There are exceptions to this. 1) Where you just want to keep a breeding pair 2) Where the species are agressive - ie you can only have 1 male siamese fighting fish (betta splendens) in a tank (with preferably zero or 3 or 5 females). That sounds as clear as mud as i read back over it but i hope you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Okay...I just have to decide which way to go for now...either smaller tank for Sam...or bigger tank for tropicals. If I kept Sam in the 10 gallon, would 2 more goldfish be too much? I was thinking my next tank would be the 29 gallon. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew...so don't want to go bigger...but no since in going to the 20. But, then again :roll: would 29 gallon be out of my league...ooooohhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 The ten gallon tank would be fine for three goldfish as long as you have suitable filtration and good aeration (do you have an air pump in there or is the filter output positioned in such a way that it breaks the water surface?). As well as considering the volume of water you need to consider surface area of the water. For example - you could have a really tall tank with lots of water in it but the surface area would be minimal. This means there is not much area for the carbon dioxide the fish breath out to be exchanged for oxygen. So you still could not keep many fish. On the other hand if you have a relatively flat tank with the same amount of water there would be much more surface area for gas exchange thus enabling you to keep more fish. See what i mean? So bear that in mind. I honestly would use the 10gall one for Sammy and two pals and set up a decent sized tropical freshwater tank - say 3 feet x 15 inches x 15 inches. You could use an undergravel filter with two powerheads and uplifts, or choose a suitable external canister filter with a spraybar return. This is where there is a tube with a strainer on the bottom which the tank water flows down to the chamber of the canister and is filtered through various media types - mechanical an mostly biological) it is then pumped back up by the canister pump and is returned to the tank through a horizontal pipe which has holes cut in it. You should position the bar so that the water coming out of the holes goes upwards slightly so that it just breaks the water surface. This provides aeration and water movement. - eheim or fluval are good but you may have your own brands there too). I used to have both on my trop tank (which was 36" x 18" x 18") but then I used to have a lot of fish. There are many things to consider, but as a corydoras catfish fan I would urge you to not buy a taller tank than 15" if you wish to keep these beautiful fish. They have to swim to the surface to breath and when they are tiny its hard work ! Darn it. I was going to try and resist the urge to have tropical freshwaters as well as marines this time. Its SO NOT WORKING. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 I have a filter on the back...and I have an air pump as well. But for now...I'm just going to got bed it's almost 5 a.m. here... Good morning...ahhh...night...ahhh...evening :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Excellent advice Pomereef. (About the suggestion of the current tank being for sammie and a couple of goldfish tank mates...and a new larger tank for the tropicals) Caper, you may be able to pick up a larger tank second hand to save some moeny but just bear in mind the need to cycle it before you throw in the tropicals you have (and don't forget the polystyrene for the new tank ...lol...)...so I wouldn't rush out and buy sammies friends just yet. I am tempted myself to make one of my tropical tanks a goldfish tank....I wont do just yet but I am thinking about it. Pomereef is right. Corydoras are the CUTEST little catfish ever. I bought 2 a couple of weeks ago for two of my tanks.....but they looked so cute together i couldn't bear to separate them...so i have decided i need at least 2 corydoras per tank...(counts on fingers....heehee thats a few corydoras...and given that odd numbers are best maybe i should be planning on 3 per tank! ) I like the plecos too.....except they can grow quite big and i don't like the big ones...but they are so funky the way they suck against the glass and jiggle across the algae! They seem to be quite fragile though....i don't have a very good track record with plecos...and lost my last (favourite) one i had after i moved him to a new home when his tank needed repairs.... i am so looking forward to all my tanks settling down....and the fact that it takes time is good it means i can save some money for more....FISH! :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 ...so i have decided i need at least 2 corydoras per tank...(counts on fingers....heehee thats a few corydoras...and given that odd numbers are best maybe i should be planning on 3 per tank! Gof for 5 if you can - they like company. Naturally lots together in the wild. I like the plecos too.....except they can grow quite big and i don't like the big ones...but they are so funky the way they suck against the glass and jiggle across the algae! They seem to be quite fragile though....i don't have a very good track record with plecos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Shelley if you like the Plecos but not the size you could give the Bristle Nose a try, usually grow to 10-15cm tops. The Golden Blackeye Ancistrus (B/Nose) are an awesome looking fish and don't grow to big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 I agree, I have a pair of common bristlenose, and they rock cleared a tank of algae in two days (and it was BAD!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Very cool! Thanks for the advice....I do prefer the fishies small. Harry the pleco was about as big as I was prepared for him to go....and nature took over he was one very cool fish! Lovely pic of the bristlenose...thanks...havent seen any in the local store but new owners take over there next week....i believe they are not particulalry knowledgable (i.e. totally new to running a pet store) but maybe they have had lots of experience in their own home(?) i have more or less decided to use Christchurch for my fishy base for purchases....with the occasional trip down to Oamaru because I was so impressed with the service down there. Animates on Moorhouse Ave Christchurch have good stock and knowledgable staff that WANT to help you. A shop (think it is petworld) on Stanmore Road had a cheerful bloke with a fishnet and the most amazing male guppies and some lovely corys in stock..... I was not overly impressed with Redwoods when I visited, but will give it a second chance as I have only heard good things about it. And I believe there is a new pet store off Blenheim Road somewhere near Ezibuy and Bunnings that I will be taking a look at next trip to Christchurch. I really hope the new Timaru people are interested in the fish......it would be wonderful to have some great supplies closer to home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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