Quiet Sumps

[Anthony]

give him bell some time shae

[Ira]

More flow through the overflows and sump=more noise. When I upgraded my return pump by about 2000 LPH the noise from overflow noticably increased. But I can't actually hear the sump bubbling because it's in the stand, mostly all I can hear is the hissing of the air valve on the durso and a little splashing. If you had a smaller return pump, say 2000lph and a similar setup to mine it would probably be practically silent.

[livebearer_breeder]

So what sort of Turn over Pump should i get for a 350l system? And would a King 2 be ok?

The King - 2 :~ 110v/220v/240v

Freq: 50/60hz

Power: (w) 20

Output: (lift) 1000

H-Max: 1.95

Dimensions: mm 160x65x90

I dont know what these mean?

Shae

[Ira]

That would probably be too weak, it wouldn't give you much more than a trickle. Maybe a minimum would be around 1000LPH actually at 1.5meters? Mine is rated at 5000(I think) Liters per hour at 1.5 meters. Of course, if you cut down on flow from the sump you'll want to increase any power heads in your tank a bit.

[livebearer_breeder]

it is 1000LPH, IRa

Shae

[Ira]

It's 1000LPH at 0 head. At 1.5m it would probably be more like 200 LPH. Have a look at the flow charts on them and see which one says it should do 1000 lph at 1.5

[JoeBlog]

Steve - what are "eductors" ? Thats not a word im familiar with.

Chris, they are basically what Layton described. Here is a link

http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc/hello_salt_water_enthusiasts.htm

[Aquatopia]

it is 1000LPH, IRa

Shae

Yeh dude - thats probably 1000lph at zero head though. Which means without having to pump upwards. Once a pump has to counter the force of gravity and push the water back UP to the tank, its flow rate reduces. Most pumps will give you a flow rate chart to show how it alters as the height (head) increases.

Thus, if you want to achieve 1000lph you have to get a pump whose standard flow rate is greater than that.

[livebearer_breeder]

Would this be better?

The King - 3 :~ 110v/220v/240v

Freq: 50/60hz

Power: (w) 35

Output: (lift per hour) 2400

H-Max: 2.40

Dimensions: mm 185x80x110

Shae

[suphew]

shea, I have a king 4 in my tank runing my skimmer, its been going for about a year and still works, BUT it is starting to rust (the impela (sp)) and is noisy (p@$#$ me off). im using a eheim 1060 for my return plus another for a closed loop, plus a seio (rated at i think 3000lph). The going rate for secondhard 1060's is about $100-$120, they are as good secondahrd as new cause they are quality to start with. I have about the same size tank as you are looking at.

I got a local tiler to drill my tank, you just need to find someone with a daimond tip drill bit, and carefully explain that it is all at your risk, alot of glasiers dont like doing it cause they feel that if they break the glass they will end up with the job of fixing it.

I strongly sugest that you at very least get a hole done for your standpipe and plus a couple for a closed loop. I have 4 holes in my tank (closed loop output goes to 2 hole) and would happily have another closed loop

[Ira]

You could also buy yourself a dremel and the right bits and do it yourself. Seems pretty straightforward, just need to be slow and patient.

[Aquatopia]

Ira -

that sounds scary aye ! aren't you supposed to keep running water on the area you are drilling too?

[Ira]

Yeah, you are. Easy enough to keep water running on it though. Do it outside with the hose slowly running on it.

[Pies]

We drilled some holes in Suphews tank, and used a dremal to make the hole bigger. To run enough water Jigsaw used a weed sprayer filled with water, running into the hole. Worked well.

[Aquatopia]

Sweet - good to know its possible.

[livebearer_breeder]

I didnt understand half that stuff, but hey sounds good.

Closed loops have me confused? plz Enlighten.

Shae

[chimera]

Basic definition is a control system with an active feedback loop. In other words you are circulating water around in your main tank by taking the water out and putting it back in. Its just used to increase circulation without having powerheads in the tank. Hence reason why some people drill their tanks. Water goes out of tank into a pump then circulated back into the tank again. When the water is cycled around it obviously creates water movement (good for SPS corals) and (depending where the loop goes back into the tank) provides aeration.

[livebearer_breeder]

Thanks, I understand now.

So would Powerheads or closed loops be better?

Shae

[Aquatopia]

Shae - my opininion is that "more appropriate" rather than "better" may be a suitable definition. It depends what you want to keep and what your budget it.

Powerheads can "do" for the meantime, and indeed, many people use them all the time successfully. They add clutter to the tank though, can be considered unsightly (and whilst they can be hidden by rock, this makes it difficult to access them for maintenance if needed), and contribute to additional temperature - which may or may not be a critical issue depending on how easily you can control the ambient temperature and that of your tank.

More people are adopting the "closed loop" nowadays, where budget and practicality affords it. If you are setting up anew then i would go for it. Even on my small 1100x500x600 tank i will be installing one. Then as i go bigger (cos im sure i will at some stage), the pump that is running the closed loop can be put to some purpose.

[livebearer_breeder]

Hmm, Would it be possible to setup a close loop system but not use it until I can purchase a realy good pump? For instance, get the hole cut, and plumbing to the sump in but have it closed of until i have a pump to run it? cause im presuming you cant run the return and closeloop off on pump.

I agree it would look nicer without Powerheads, and makes more sence for in the long run.

Shae

[chimera]

yes, you can get the closed loops done now (ie: holes drilled, plumbing etc) but be aware it IS costly. each hole drilled needs a bulkhead fitted and a ball valve attached. just for those two bits you're looking at about $50 per hole (that's trade price for about 3/4" to 1" hole)

[livebearer_breeder]

Darn! Thats is a bit expensive per hole. So is it not possible to do what anth was going to do on his Return pump out to the spray bar and add something like a no return valve so the water doesnt go back into the sump?

Shae

[Aquatopia]

Non return valves are generally expensive too, and have been associated with reduced flow (not good).

But hey - every problem has a solution.

For example, if the cost of ball valves was a stopping point and you wanted to save up for them, then you could just cap off the bulkheads rather than pipe them out and put ballvalves on them. However, this would mean draining the tank down when it comes to installing the pump (at which stage you would add the ball valves too).

Ultimately, whatever you do, if you do it right, its not a cheap hobby - but a very worthwhile one.

[chimera]

ball valves are a must. if something goes wrong with the plumbing, you want to be able to shut it off.

[livebearer_breeder]

My problem is i wouldnt have a clue were to get these things.

Shae