Fish flashing again!

[mcmillanm]

Hi again,

I just did a 15% water change, added prime, removed some excess plant growth and some of my fish seem to be flashing more than before the water change! They do seem to be flashing more again lately but I'm concerned that they seem to get worse after a water change.

I've also got a couple of fish, a female sword and a female Mollie who are lethargic and hang near the bottom of the tank.

I'm really OVER worrying about my fish all the time...

Could it be the tap water or some sort of parasite?

As always my neons look a bit wretched but water parameters ok.

Any help appreciated.

[Cricketman]

check temp? :dunno: sometimes it is the simplest thing...

What are your parameters? have you done a test on your tap water?

Flashing usually a sign of skin irritation, have you noticed any surface evidence of an infection/parasite/ loss of slimecoat?

stress-coat is a good product for healing and replaceing slime-coat on your fish, but obviously you need to determine a cause first.

When they flash, are they opening thier operculum (gill plate) / gasping ? as that could be a sign of gill-flukes. Try get a closer look at the gill filaments themselves (easier said than done) see if they are discoloured or if you can see anything out of the ordinary.

The fish on the bottom, do they look like they are panting?

Behavioural observation should give some clues hopefully.

[mcmillanm]

Hi

What does loss of slime coat look like?

The fish that's often on bottom of tank occasionally swims about a bit erratically then back to bottom gasping. A couple of fish have a slight greyish patch on them. Not fungus I think but some kind of discoloration patch?

My flying foxes look fine but keep flashing?

Does this sound like flukes?

I have formalin which I've used before at half strength (because of loaches) if needed.

My dwarf cichlids which o thought were succeptabke to flukes seem ok although a little quiet.

Thanks

[mcmillanm]

BTW - I use prime, is that similar to the stress coat you mentioned?

[Cricketman]

something definately sounds off...

Stress-coat is different to prime as far as I'm aware...

now obviously it hard to try come up with answers without looking at the fish and testing myself, but her goe anyway:

Discolouration sounds like loss of slime coat, or the start of something else. erratic swimming then back to panting sounds like high NH3/4 or NO2...

Reading through your other posts, It sounds like you've had a bad run of it.

Personally, I would be putting the fish in a hosp tank till you know exactly what thier health like, see if anything else develops. while simultaneously de-constructing your display and scrubbing with salt and warm water (thin watery paste) and start again from scratch, throw out your substrate, and don't put fish back till they are healthy again.

I know it really frustrating, but believe me it does get easier as you learn the little tips and tricks.

Good luck...

[mcmillanm]

Yeah,

I've felt things aren't quite right for awhile but it's the odd fish here and there, often those which are already a bit weaker ie: the fish down the bottom is a female sword whose pregnant or had a few babies so I guess her immune system would be down.

The neons have a wee bit of fin rot and a white spot at the end of their fin and some look a bit discoloured. I just can't definitively work out exactly what it is.

Adding heat and a bit of formalin and white spot treatment at half strength seemed to help some fish a while back but even though I REALLY want to fix it I don't want to keep putting my fish through 'maybe' medications.

I still haven't tried salt because of my loaches and Sterbai who so far have been fine but maybe that's a start.

Am in process of getting a hospital tank.

With a hospital tank, I'm looking at a small 20 or so litre and a 25watt heater - what sort of (quiet and cheap) filter should I be looking for?

One other thing - in my other tank whereby I moved the fish from a smaller tank to a bigger one I've also just had a couple of issues.

Firstly, one of my bronze Corys who acts happily enough has what I thought was fungus and treated unsuccessfully with furan-2 & meth blue drops as instructed by pet shop. I thought he mAy have been stressed as old tank was a bit overcrowded but now think it may be a slime coat thing too... When I lifted him out of water I couldn't see any sign of whitish patch - ideas?

Lastly, I added 4 young boesemani rainbow fish on Mon and 3 have died since then. Water parameters were fine in Tues when I tested after npricing they looked quiet. Other fish seem fine.

[mcmillanm]

Sorry about the above essay but if anyone can clear things up. The Boesemanis seemed to have red gills ( but maybe they do naturally?) but they aren't liking something about my tank. The breeder said his are fine. Im getting scared to look at my tanks not to mention the waste of money on what I hoped would be my feature fish in that tank...

Def not getting any more fish for a while. &c:ry

[Cricketman]

Getting more fish would be the last thing I would do when you've obviously got problems.

The number of treatments that you've put through your tank make me think that you've probably killed off the nitrosomonas bacteria, causing a NH3/4 cycle, probably the cause behind the flashing (irritated gills/mucosa), leaving your fish prone to infection/infestation (low immunity due to stress).

This is why hospital tanks are important when treating fish, as the anti-biotics/chemicals used are often not very nice in a community tank, and can cause problems like you are experiencing. treatment is also cheaper/easier in a smaller volume of water, and you can do a 100% change if necessary in a short amount of time.

All I would recomend for a hosp tank is an airstone (keeps water moving, more than anything) and a heater.

Up the water changes to 20% min almost daily, (after you run a full screen on your tap water). Add your prime, look into "stress-coat" too.

A small amount (say, teaspoon/10L) of salt won't be concentrated enough to cause any problems, but if you are not comfortable with it, don't stress it.

Dont move fish when you have illness unless it to hosp tank. also keep seperate nets for your hosp tank to avoid contamination, or clean them thouroughly in a 5% bleach solution between tanks

[mcmillanm]

Thanks for the info cricketman.

I've been doing some

More searches and looking at pictures online in the meantime too.

I think I may have an outbreak of velvet in my tanks, a severe one in my older tank and a slight one in my newer tank from transferring fish over at various times.

On looking at my Molly fish who happen to be speckly anyway they seem to have patches of dull grey on them. Also, my Cory in the other tank has Greyish white patches on him too which are more noticeable against his colour. Until now I thought it was fungus & told to treat him with meth blue but when I took him out to treat I could only see a greenish sheen so now I think velvet.

Off to get some meth green to go with formalin at 1/2 strength due to loaches.

Thanks again and PLEASE let this be the end of it!!

[Cricketman]

DONT TREAT UNTIL YOU HAVE HOSP TANK! :an!gry or at least a seperate container to act as hosp. tank.

That way, you can leave loaches in your main tank and only treat affected/infected fish! avoiding causing more damage to your already fragile system. :thup:

Even better would be multiple small hosp tanks so you can seggregate the loaches and treat them(if they need) at your 1/2 strength.

I still reccommend a thourough clean of your entire tank (pour boiling water through your substrate would be better than my earlier suggestion) and be prepared to cycle the tank from scratch.

Only add fish back to the tank once they are healthy.

Also, when getting new fish, it pays to isolate them in a portion of your tank water (siphon off like a water change into a hosp tank) to acclimatise and to quarantine them before introducing to your main tank.

Hope this all helps.