Funkytown Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Hey yall! New to the forum. You guys seem like a good bunch, judging by the quality of the posts. Okay, enough of the brown-nosing! I got an AquaOne 380 setup for my birthday (my gf is the best!). I had a tropical tank when I was about 9 or 10, so I'm not a lilly-white novice, but I'm nowhere near an expert. This is my understanding so far... From what I've read, the most important thing seems to be good bacteria and good water quality. That said, I'm under the impression that so long as I do a partial water change every week or so, and don't shock the fish with major changes, most fish don't sweat less-than-optimum pH and water-hardness. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are the real culprits, and if I build up my tank slowly, and change the water regularly, I should be sweet. Sweet? So, assuming that I'm not too far off the mark there... 1.What do you guys think of the AquaOne tank, filter, light setup? Is there anything I should be particularly careful about with them? I've already got one, so don't tell me to get something else... 2.What fish do I get? It's #2 that I'm most curious about. I've only got about 34 litres to work with, so I'll need to be selective. I'm thinking... -A few interesting live-bearers. -A group of 8-10 tetra-type schoolers. -A couple *slighly* larger feature-fish. -A couple of bottom-feeders. Is this too much? I remember having guppies when I was younger, and I like the idea of having some live-bearers again, but my tank will likely be maxed out after a few months of them doing their thing, alone! How bad would I be if I gave some cover to the fry, let them fend for themselves, and give away any surplus that made it? Or will the SPCA be on my tail? I want something not too common looking, which may be hard to achieve with live bearers! I've seen some interesting-looking platties, fat red ones with blue eyes, and the like...what comes to mind? Neons are very popular, and I loved the ones I had years ago, but now I'd be partial to something else. I saw some silver coloured ones with a red eye and a black tail with a stripe. What are these called? What are they like? I really like the look of the Silver-Dollars, and the American Flagfish. I've heard the Silver-Dollars are pretty agro tho. Is that true? Can they be trusted? How about the Flagfish? I don't know anything about them... Are there any less-common favorites out there I should consider? And then there's the bottom-feeders. I like the look of the clown loach, but it may get a bit too big for my tank. What about those little eel-like guys? Anything else interesting come to mind? Ah, and then I need to know what order to put them in! I kinda thought the few live bearers first, to let the tank come up to speed, then the tetras a couple weeks later, then the bottomers, then the others. Do I need to worry about teritorial type fish going in last? Have I mentioned anything that I need to be especially cafeful with? Oh, and to keep algae down, are snails a good idea? I'm kind of thinking out loud with this stuff, but I'd appreciate your comments and advise. Let me know your thoughts! Thanks! Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Hey yall! From what I've read, the most important thing seems to be good bacteria and good water quality. That said, I'm under the impression that so long as I do a partial water change every week or so, and don't shock the fish with major changes, most fish don't sweat less-than-optimum pH and water-hardness. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are the real culprits, and if I build up my tank slowly, and change the water regularly, I should be sweet. Sweet? 1.What do you guys think of the AquaOne tank, filter, light setup? Is there anything I should be particularly careful about with them? I've already got one, so don't tell me to get something else... 2.What fish do I get? It's #2 that I'm most curious about. I've only got about 34 litres to work with, so I'll need to be selective. I'm thinking... -A few interesting live-bearers. -A group of 8-10 tetra-type schoolers. -A couple *slighly* larger feature-fish. -A couple of bottom-feeders. Is this too much? I remember having guppies when I was younger, and I like the idea of having some live-bearers again, but my tank will likely be maxed out after a few months of them doing their thing, alone! How bad would I be if I gave some cover to the fry, let them fend for themselves, and give away any surplus that made it? Or will the SPCA be on my tail? I want something not too common looking, which may be hard to achieve with live bearers! I've seen some interesting-looking platties, fat red ones with blue eyes, and the like...what comes to mind? Neons are very popular, and I loved the ones I had years ago, but now I'd be partial to something else. I saw some silver coloured ones with a red eye and a black tail with a stripe. What are these called? What are they like? I really like the look of the Silver-Dollars, and the American Flagfish. I've heard the Silver-Dollars are pretty agro tho. Is that true? Can they be trusted? How about the Flagfish? I don't know anything about them... Are there any less-common favorites out there I should consider? And then there's the bottom-feeders. I like the look of the clown loach, but it may get a bit too big for my tank. What about those little eel-like guys? Anything else interesting come to mind? Ah, and then I need to know what order to put them in! I kinda thought the few live bearers first, to let the tank come up to speed, then the tetras a couple weeks later, then the bottomers, then the others. Do I need to worry about teritorial type fish going in last? Have I mentioned anything that I need to be especially cafeful with? Oh, and to keep algae down, are snails a good idea? I'm kind of thinking out loud with this stuff, but I'd appreciate your comments and advise. Let me know your thoughts! Thanks! Brian Ok first of all, that size tank is too small for silver dollars they get BIG! second you might get away with 2 american flags, but then you couldnt have anything else. from the list you have of fish you want, there is too many you will be over stocking the little tanks. I queit like the tanks have seen them in animates, good tank for in the bedroom. Does it have a heater? I have not seent he setup with a heater? Livebearers are a very good choice to start off with along with some Bristlenose which are a type of bottom dweller. You are pretty on the mark with your "philosophy" although there are something down the track that are not queit as simple as that. The silver coloured "neon" like fish you saw, form what you describe i would say they are rummy nose tetras, and are alot hardier than neons. much better idea! Clown loaches will out grow your tank very quickly, they get to about a foot long. If you dont want a livebearer to take over your tank try mollies, they give birht to small amounts of fry, at a larger size than others, higher survival rate, but less fry, and if some do make it to teenage hood and are not eatin by other fish them you could sell them. a good i dea is to heavily plant a little tank like that, it creates its own little eco-system for them and the plants also help balance the water conditions and act as a filter themselves. If you are going to stock you tank heavily a gravel clean along with a water change should be in order. Buy a gravel vacum, makes things much quicker and easier. The brislenose will keep the alage down, all snails do is become a nusance and will eat the plants. Do not get some bigger fish like you said above, not smart for such a small tank. Cheers Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Welcome Brian. Whew that's a might tall order you have there! Maybe I'll try to answer a few and then the others can chip in with their pennyworth. First of all you already know this but it is important to wait until the tank has fully cycled before you add all of your fish. Just get say two or three to start with, maybe Platies as they are fairly hardy and don't worry too much about water quality. Don't change the water at all for the first two weeks but do keep monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels - if it gets too bad you might need to do a few SMALL changes. I also have an AR380 and over the two years I've had it I've found it the easiest tank of all of mine to look after, I have no problems with PH or anything much except for when I add driftwood - that sends the PH plummeting everyday! The only thing you need to watch with the AR380 is that you keep the water level right up to the bottom of the plastic edging on the top of the glass - they are designed so that you don't see the level of the water - if you let the water level get too low the filter pump burns out - which happened to me twice before they finally told me about where the water level should be - it doesn't tell you that in the instructions that come with the tank, at least it didn't with mine but you will have one of the newer models with the new PL light tube so the instructions might have been updated also! I now have only a pair of Kribensis in my tank but before I changed it over I had the following which I think was about as many as it will take without being overcrowded - two honey dwarf gouramies, one dwarf gourami, one cobalt blue dwarf gourami, one male & three female guppies, two golden bristlenoses and about four other baby/juvenile bristlenoses. More fish would mean more regular cleaning! I don't really think the tank is big enough to have neons or tetras as they are a schooling fish which need plenty of room to school! I also have an AR620 and AR980 which has lots of neons etc and there's nothing like a school of fish flashing by! The ones with the red noses and black & white striped tails are Rummy Nose Tetras - one of my favourites - expensive to buy (apparently because they are rather hard to raise from fry) but in my opinion really worth it! If you do get any be aware that if you have one that doesn't school with the rest of them for some reason it will usually die within a day or so - I've found that out from experience - I had yet another one that went swimming off in the opposite direction when I put a few I'd bought on New Year's Eve into the tank - the next day he was still just shivering in the corner so I took him back and they exchanged him for me. Oh hang on, you said it had a red eye not a red nose, I've just re-read your post - not sure what that one would be. Don't know anything about the American Flagfish but I do have three Silver Dollars in my community tank and apart from them always beating the others to the food they aren't aggressive at all - at feeding time I need to get their attention with large cichlid pellets at one end of the tank while feeding the other fish at the other end! Be aware they do get fairly big so would not be appropriate for your AR380. The eel-like guys are Kuhli Loaches, I fell in love with them too but you do need to have a covering of some sort on the intake of your filter otherwise they disappear up the filter very quickly apparently! The local LFS puts a piece of filter wool inside the end of their filter but of course that would need to be cleaned out everyday which becomes something of a problem, it's bad enough doing it once or twice a month! Brown snails are okay if you only have one and if you get an apple snail then don't have any REAL plants in the tank, they won't last long! I have one in my AR980 which only has fake plants and one real one growing in the driftwood, I have to keep an eye on him and knock him off when he gets too close! Bristlenoses are good for cleaning the algae and the black-eyed golden ones are really pretty, Kim, one of the other members, has lots of them at the moment, she has a shop in Birkenhead. Better let some of the others get a word in, if they haven't already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Hi There Brian, If you were to have livebearers eg guppies, you would probably find that in a smallish tank that none if any would survive, and those that would survive you can give away or sell. Yoyu can find some interesting ones around, just a matter of h8unting for them really What you will need to considor aswell is any decoration you are going to have I.e driftwood, rocks etc and how big they are goig to be. also I would forgo the silver dollars as from my understanding they get quite large, not sure how fast they grow, but why buy something if you know that further down the track you are going to have to rehome them any way. just my thoughts on it where I can comment. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 The tetra with the red eye is a red-eyed tetra. Which might seem simple enough, but just to confuse you I have also seen them called yellow-banded tetras because of the yellow band that borders the black band across the base of the tail. The Latin name is Moenkhausia Sanctaefilomenae, unambigious, but unpronounceable too. I haven't kept any in recent times, but they are meant to be reasonably hardy fish. Don't know about flag fish. There is more than one fish commonly called a silver dollar (according to my references anyway). One grows quite large, the other is a largish, but more normal sized tetra. Just looking at the data I wouldn't recommend either for your tank (but your pet store may not be selling either of the ones in my book). You might also want to look at the smaller rasbora, like harlequins. Or possibly danios. Barbs can be trouble, although the cherry barbs are both small and placid (tiger barbs are just trouble). For feature fish, things I have had experience with that might suit your tank: One of the smaller loaches (not a clown loach, they grow large). They are bottom dwellers, but have plenty of personality (well, my skunk loach does ayway). A small gourami would also be nice. Maybe a sword-tail. A red-tailed black shark might fit, but they can be picky about their tank mates (mine hates tiger barbs). You look as though you have figured most of it out. Although, since it is a smaller tank, I might recommend Otos rather than a bristlenose for algae eating purposes. Just because they are a smaller fish. Having said that, a bristlenose is a far more amusing fish to watch (assuming it isn't hiding). Some other comments: I restarted with an aqua-one tank too (although a larger one) and they are great for this purpose because you get decent lighting and filtration without having to think about it (there are enough other things to worry about starting out again). The only real problems I have are getting good access to the back of the tank without taking the filter off and seeing what I am doing once I have taken the lights off (again, to get better access). Another thing you may want to try is adding plants. As Dawn has pointed out, large snails and plants are not necessarily compatible, but plants offer some advantages. They give places for the fish to hide in. They also help with the water quality (as long as you don't have too many dead leaves floating around). The Aqua-one tank will have good enough lighting for the plants, but if you want good growth life gets more complicated (fertiliser, CO2 addition, etc. etc.). When stocking my tank I got some plants whenever I got fish. Some plants didn't grow well, some I decided I didn't like, but others did grow and those are the ones I kept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 spooky> A red tailed black shark might fit. do not get the above it will outgrow the tank quickly, there is not enough room in that size tank for one of these, they like to dart very quickly and freely. bad idea keeping this in such a small space with other fish. they can be aggressive. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkytown Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Thanks guys! Letsee... I've set things up already. I've got a heater, a gravel cleaner syphon, and a timer for the light. I've put driftwood (some sort of hardwood, Malaysian?) and quite a good number of cheapy live plants, as well as the requisite gravel into the tank. It's actually okay to look at as-is! I'll be sure to watch the pH...thanks. Yeah, the appropriate water level was difficult to determine. I'm a "slowly-but-surely" guy, and I made sure I had that right. I'm glad I'm not alone in my confusion! Hmm. It sounds like my eyes are too big for my tank! The silver dollar might be out, but that's fine, I wasn't that attached. Will the Kuhli Loach really have probs with the filter? I've cut the tube an inch to keep it above gravel hieght, and the gaps don't seem that large. It might be a little bit too much hassle to pluck fish off the filter every day. :roll: Yeah, the red-eye tetra is quite good looking imo. Not enough space for them? Is there consensus on this (I'm dissappointed on this one)? Okay, snails out, though I think I had a stow-away on a plant that I bought... :-? It strikes me as quite an art, putting together a nice aquarium. There's a lot to balance! I don't remember my first aquarium being too much work, and I think I had a good little mini-ecosystem going. I'd like to have that again. I'm not at the stage of getting into CO2 systems and the like for my plants, but I must confess I can already see myself upselling to a much bigger tank in the future, when I've got the space. I've seen some amazing set-ups and beautiful displays! Thanks for all the advice so far! I'll have to head to the "lfs" (I'm using the lingo!) and have a look at your fish suggestions. Thanks again, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Hi Brian - welcome to the hobby - from one that's well and truely addicted (I think 16 tanks takes it from hobby to obsession). I can't comment about the Aquaone tanks since I've never had one or its like, though at 34L it is a small tank and as people have already pointed out your fish wish list will have to be scaled back a bit. From looking through the previous posts the ones ruled out so far are: - silver dollars - will get too big (also they'll finish off that plant you've put in for breakfast) - Kuhli loaches (the eel like ones) - will get lost up the filter (I'll bow to the ones who have knowledge of Aquaone tanks on that one, I've never had problem with them going up filter - most filter intakes have at least a bit of slotted plastic to stop this sort of thing occuring) - the school of tetras - because the tank isn't really big enough for them (the volume may be OK but the lack of swimming space means that they may not look as good as you'd hoped - if you did decide on tetras I'd only go for about 5 or 6 and definitely limit the number of livebearers). Now a couple of suggestions: - you may want to consider 2 or 3 (please not just 1) corydoras catfish. These are smallish (roughly 3cm) lurk around the bottom and will clean up uneaten food. The most commonly available ones are bronze cory, peppered cory and albino cory. - a small bristlenose catfish (an algae eater, also called ancistrus) - I agree that it will eventually get too big (about 15cm) for the tank but they are one of the best algae eaters out there (IMO), not hugely expensive and if it does get too large you can always trade it in for a small one and start the process again (or you'll have got a bigger tank by then and it wont be an issue ). There was a suggestion of an oto (or otocinclus) - these are also excellent algae eaters but I have found them to not be as hardy as bristlenoses. - you mention livebearers - I think they would be a good choice, only platties or guppies though. Mollies and swordtails IMO would be too large for the tank - I know that they look like a pair would fit OK but there wouldn't be as many places for the female to get away from the males advances. I would just get a pair or two (of platties or guppies) and let them do there thing, having some plant cover is advisable for the females and young to hide in (of course the female's just as likely to eat the young as the male is) and then let nature take it's course. - if you were still wanting some sort of feature fish (I personally think the bottom dwellers and the expanding livebearer population would be enough) - the ones that I personally would go for would be a pair of Honey Gouramis - though they haven't got in-your-face colouring, a well coloured male is quite attractive and their interaction with one another (with their 'feelers') is interesting. Whatever you decide in the end I'd suggest you stock either the bottom dwellers or livebearers (if you get some) first since these will eat food from the bottom. If you got tetras as your first fish, most of these only eat at the surface or mid-water, meaning that any food that settles onto the bottom it left uneaten and rots - not good. Regarding your overall philosophy - can't see any problems: keep up with regular water changes, keep an eye on the pH - with a general community tank you'd want to try for pH 7 which should keep most things happy, be patient - don't build up the fish numbers too quickly, it's usual to get algae outbreaks when you set up a new tank, if you have problems (ie fish dying or look like they're going to die) one of the best things to do straight away is to do a 50% water change on the tank (it will: dilute the flyspray/hairspray your flatmate used too near the tank, while you get some activated carbon into the filter and strangle said flatmate; dilute the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate that built up in the tank because it hadn't finished cycling/you hadn't got around to doing the regular water change; it will add more oxygen to the water while you figure out why the filter/air pump isn't working properly; it will remove half of the infectious disease in the tank while you determine what the disease is and how to treat it; it will (depending on the pH of your tap water) get the ph closer to what it should be while you try to decide if it was the wood, gravel, or lack of recent water change that caused the pH to get out of wack). Happy fish keeping - and I didn't really mean to scare you with the things that can go wrong , I just wanted to emphasise (not just to you) why doing a reasonably hefty water change is a good step when dealing with potential problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 you mention livebearers - I think they would be a good choice, only platties or guppies though. Mollies and swordtails IMO would be too large for the tank - I know that they look like a pair would fit OK but there wouldn't be as many places for the female to get away from the males advances. I would just get a pair or two (of platties or guppies) and let them do there thing, having some plant cover is advisable for the females and young to hide in (of course the female's just as likely to eat the young as the male is) and then let nature take it's course. I disagree, mollies grow to the size of suitable water, if you get them small and young and put them in a small volume of water they will not out grow the tank. however swordtails are another story, unless you go with a neon swordtail which stay quiet small. also i suggest you only have 1 male to 3 females at the least! because there is such a small amount of water it will be hard for the females to avade the male, this way the more females there are the more atention is divided between them. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazza Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Hi Brian The others have already said everything important. I have found this site great for determining fish sizes and capability http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/ Clown Loach's and Silver Dollars are great fish, and very peaceful but they grow very big and your size tank can no way support them. They will wake up one day and find they can not turn around. When looking for fish for your tank you need to consider: 1- Will they live ok with other fish you have. Some fish like the Black Shark and Tiger Barbs will haress other fish, and some will eat them too. 2- How big will they grow, and how fast, some fish grow slowly and you maybe able to swap / sell them later on. 3- Have I enought hiding places for my fish. Some fish like the Kuhil Loach look nice, but you may never see them as the hide under rocks etc in the light and come out in darkness. I have found that a larger tank is easer to maintain than a small tank, and you can add more of the fish that you like. Also remember that your lfs may not tell you the full truth about you purchase as they are there to make money. What ever you get make sure that you get a couple of bottom feeders as they will help keep you tank floor clean. And have fun. It's much more than great hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plecs Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 if you want a good algae eater that doesnt get too big you could get a couple of borneo sucker fish, these are one of my favourite's. Thye look very cool and spend their time cleaning the glass, ornaments and plants, without damaging them. i have four in my four foot and never clean the glass. they grow to about 5cm, are really peaceful with anything and do need a well filtered tank, but that is ok with your one. also agree that bottom feeders are a great idea! If you got dark substrate go for lighter colour ones, like the albino or more expensive panda and jullii, if you have light substrate go for the bronze or peppered. the albinos and bronze are the most active, although the jullii's are great to watch swim. Kuhli loaches can be rather elusive! I have four somewhere, occationally see one or two! they come out at night, and occationally for a feed on an algae disc. they are cool, and i have never had one stuck in my filter. The more you get the more they come out apparently, but i dont feel inclined to spend more money on them in case i never seem them! and as said above, dont get a shark, they are really active and grow quite fast, think one would be miserable in your size tank. sorry. good luck! and i have little doubt you will be expanding and getting a bigger tank soon, one that you can fill with the big fish you want! plecs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Sorry about the shark recommendation, not a good move, I was trying to visualise something with a third of the volume of my AR850 and managed to over-estimate. It was the classic mistake of forgetting that while I have 100 litres of water, the actual tank volume is greater than that. Now I've looked up the tank size, stay small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern man Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 robs on the money mollies and swords will get too big for that tank hope the tank goes well :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 robs on the money mollies and swords will get too big for that tank hope the tank goes well :lol: as said above, mollies grow to the size of suitable water, if you get them small and young and put them in a small volume of water they will not out grow the tank. however swordtails are another story, unless you go with a neon swordtail which stay quiet small. also i suggest you only have 1 male to 3 females at the least! because there is such a small amount of water it will be hard for the females to avade the male, this way the more females there are the more atention is divided between them. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Regarding what is becoming the mollie issue - I'm prepared to accept that black mollies (most likely a high % Poecilia sphenops - given that there is interbreeding of the different mollie types) could be of a suitable size for Brian's tank since they grow to about 6cm. However the two types of sailfin mollies grow larger (up to 18cm for P. velifera and up to 12cm for P. latipinna) and I still maintain would be unsuitable for that size tank, again this is all IMO. I have read Shae's comments on: if you get them small they will grow to the size suitable for the tank. I think as responsible fish keepers we should be providing an environment where fish can grow to their potential rather than intentionally stunting them. Brian - hope the tank goes well - as you've discovered there are differing opinions (as with anything), sorry for having to resort to scientific names so early in your re-introduction to the hobby . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 I started with 1 20l tank I had 5 neons, 2 glowlights. I then brought 2 silver sharks 1 bristlenose. I didn't have any loses but as the silver sharks grew over the space of the last 21 months I have gone through the 2 foot a three foot a small 4 foot and now a larger 4 foot (I added more fish along the way also). My sugestion would be to put whatever fish in it that catches your eye (as long as you can afford a second and third and fourth etc tanks along the way) as the hobby is adictive and its going to consume all your money any way so why put it off Good luck Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 I think as responsible fish keepers we should be providing an environment where fish can grow to their potential rather than intentionally stunting them. My apologise, I agree with you 100% there Rob. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkytown Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Thanks everyone for the advice! It's quite difficult chosing the fish for my small tank! I think I'll have to go bigger in the future just so I can be less discriminating with the fish selection...My GF comes back from overseas on the weekend, and she's sure to want to have a hand in the fish picking too. She's going to want fish that aren't to my taste, and that's going to cut my own selections down further! We might have to get a 4 footer to save our relationship... I appreciate that there are different opinions out there, and I'm sure to develop my own soon enough. Thanks for your help! Rob; 16 tanks?! My goodness! Is there some sort of Govt. sponsored Methadone (sp?) program for Aquarium addicts? I'll have to talk to my MP about that. Spooky; It is very hard to judge the size of the small tank. I could have easily bought too big/much of everything! I had to keep comparing to the 380 in the shop... The good thing about going slow and properly cycling the tank is I can modify my choices as I go along. If it looks different to how I expected with some fish in it, I can change to suit. I'm getting there! Thanks. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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