RobW Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 hey guys, i seem to have white spot on a few of my danios. under the recomendation of the pet store i got some malkon to get rid of it. however, i forgot to ask how often to dose the tank. it says 1ml per 20l every day until 4 days after all signs disappear, this seems a lot and just wanted to check and see if this was too much. any other advice would be great. i also have some neon tetras and a couple of panda catfish in the tank too but they don't have any signs of white spot. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 white spot goes through stages, they will drop off the fish and split ithink and then take on other hosts the medication can only attack them when they are of the fish (in their cyst stage i think it is called) that is why you have to dose until 4 days after the spots dissapear. i have also read that you should turn your tank temp up to 28 deg c and i assume this is to increase the metabolic rate of the ich bacteria and make it drop off faster but i have also read that a higher temp will increase the rate of the fish metabolism and can allow disease to attack and kill faster. tonic salt can be very ucefull the ich (white spot) hates it and will drop off the fish much more rapidly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 malkon never heard of this drug, but the info given by Dan is good. If you turn up the temp, plenty of airation will help. When you turn the temp up oxygen levels in the water decreases. This with the increased metabolism..... :-? Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 malkon is good stuff!!!!! i myself would have use white spot cure but melcon will do the job fine work out why you got white spot so it doesnt come back! eg temp is best at 26 and up - most books say lower but the worlds temp has changed since the books have been written. do you do over 30% water changes? is it by a window or door so the temp of the tank drops alot? adding new fish? white spot is from stress or temp being to low so if you can work it out you wont have to keep doseing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted November 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 i've had the temp at 24 so and i just added the danios a week ago so that is perhaps why they got the white spot. i've been doing water changes (about 25%) so i'll make a couple of changes and see how i get on. haven't had a fish loss in three and a half weeks since i first stocked my tank so want to keep the good record up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 turn your temp up 24 is to cold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 as kim said white spot comes from stress if the temp drops in any way the fish can get shimmers (i think that is what it is called) this is where the fish sit in one spot rather than swim around and they just shimmer this is a sure warning sign that whitespot could come next if you can work out what needs changing (in this case temp) and change at this point you don't need to add any medications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 cheers guys, haven't seen any shimmering but i've put the temp up to 26 and just put in second dose of med. hopefully things should improve from here, luckily its just a couple of danios affected, nothing else has any sign of white spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 you must have got it early some fish get it before others so those are the fish to watch .... if you have clown loaches they are always one of the first to get it. good luck and dont do any water changes as that doesnt get rid of it that only gives them frest water to breed in .... not saying dont do water changes just do your normal water changes :lol: im blond today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Kim said: good luck and dont do any water changes as that doesnt get rid of it that only gives them frest water to breed in .... not saying dont do water changes just do your normal water changes im blond today This seems to contradict all the teachings about removing as many off the Tetrahymina (free swimmers).. and the Tomites, which at the point of multiplying. Can you clarify Kim...? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 mmmmmmmmmm My brow is furrowed too. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 most people do big water changes and what does that do? it drops the temp , the whole idea is to keep the temp up, also the more you play with the tank the more something goes wrong i think test the water, temp, and work out why you have it then put the meds in asap! i also cut the lighting down as much i can (its an old tip done years ago before we had good meds) yes you need to do water changes but only what is needed don't do lots of water changes because i don't think it helps, that's how i deal with white spot and the only time i get it in the shop is when i buy fish in that have it, when fish are shipped to the shops they can get cold and stressed so you will get it on some fish .... that's why shops med when they get a shipment in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Sorry Kim... but still not convinced. Your explanation has no roots, and... most people do big water changes and what does that do? it drops the temp a major rule with water changes is to have the conditions and temperature as near as possible to the water that was removed. Many of the meds used today "could" be effected by light, I have no idea, as I don't use meds and prefer natural methods, but your reference to... i also cut the lighting down as much i can (its an old tip done years ago before we had good meds)was possibly in the days when Methelene Blue was the main form of med for WS erradication, and that "certainly" was effected by light. The point being, that it is a proven fact that the siphoning of the gravel (and hence water removal.. including Tetrahymina's and Tomites) once the cysts have dropped from the infected fish, goes a long way to preventing the re-infection due to a mass explosion of Tetrahymina... which are the free swimmers that will immediately search out a new host. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 haven't had a fish loss in three and a half weeks since i first stocked my tank so want to keep the good record up!! I'd say your tank is still cycling,(if tank is new) or to many fish in a short period of time. Can people read Robs comments & see if they agree. Get your nitrites & ammonia tested, I bet that this is why you have white spot. The fish are stressed. white spot can be caused by this.What do you others think??? If your nitrites/ammonia are high, (a) do a few water changes over a few days, "about" 30% each time(then get water tested again) (b)dont feed fish for a couple of days. do you do over 30% water changes? Discus breeders are known to change 50% of water, if water is aged & the same temp, no problems. I know of one discus breeder who changes his water 50% a day, he does feed them 4 to 5 times a day. :roll: Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 when fish are shipped to the shops they can get cold and stressed so you will get it on some fish .... that's why shops med when they get a shipment in We must be a minority, I'd be checking with your suppliers. We dont med fish on arrival. Also all our tropicals,goldfish are on individual set ups. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 yes Pegasus in breeding tanks you do lots of water changers thats normal but in an every day tank water changers are not good..... i ask you this when it rains is it warm? the way i see it is that you do small water changers with cold water the fish do better , i never add warm unless i do big water changers . herefishiefishie we have had the shop for 30 years and have not had many problems with our fish .... the meds we use are natural, also the tanks are all run with under gravel filters and internal filters as well in some of the heavily stocked tanks . the only time i get white spot is when a shipment is sent over night and its been a very cold night, so thats once or twice a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 herefishiefishie, i realise now i probably have to many fish in my tank!! always too late, had my water tested at the pet store and they said fine... add some more, should have really gone with what i knew was right and waited but listened to the person i thought should know what they were doing. upon reading more in this forum have since disconvered other stores that i think i can trust more so will start going there but am going to wait quite some time to make sure the tank sorts itself out and cycles properly. thanks for all the advice though, white spot on the improve i think, although i'm a little confused now to water change or not to water change last did 25% on sunday so i'll do a count up of for and against and make a decision from there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 i've been doing one change of about 25% once a week since i started up the tank about a month ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 yes Pegasus in breeding tanks you do lots of water changers thats normal This of course depends on the circumstances.. however... but in an every day tank water changers are not good..... Tell this to the Discus keepers i ask you this when it rains is it warm? It depends on the ambient temperature of the air, as it could be freezing rain, or warm enough for a good shower the way i see it is that you do small water changers with cold water the fish do better , i never add warm unless i do big water changers . No prob with the cold water trickle method. the meds we use are natural Medicating fish on arrival is a futile excesize if you don't know what you are medicating for.. so why medicate perfectly healthy fish.. or are you saying that your supplies of fish may be suspect in some way, and you medicate in preference to good quarantine practices..? the only time i get white spot is when a shipment is sent over night and its been a very cold night, so thats once or twice a year.Blame your supplier. I have previously had fish delivered to my LFS that were sitting at the airport in a snow blizzard for almost two days, but still arrived in good condition.. but this was back in the 70's.. so perhaps transport methods have changed Sorry guys... the topic "was" White Spot. (Bill cuts the cable on his keyboard) (Then quickly re-joins it to ask a question..) Can I ask you Kim, that when you sell fish do you use the water from the display tanks... or from a seperate supply...? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 yes bill i use the water that the fish come out of. yes with discus you do more water changers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Most suppliers here practise good habits, >95% of fish are great. Look at aussie, we have sent fish to Cairns, Sydney, Melbourne & Hobart, all different climates, no problems. We have had fish from Melbourne(bagged first thing in the morning) got sent to Sydney by mistake, didnt get to brissie mid arfo next day, good as gold mate.... Frenchy ps; off to cricket today, hope the guys aim up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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