DeeTee Posted October 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 No, I don't know the KH of my water - I will look into this. However, the small tank I have that is NOT overloaded is pretty stable - after a week it tends to be around the same as my tapwater - about PH7.5. The overloaded tank was also similar - I used to add a little PH down in fact to get it a bit closer to neutral for my rasboras and tetras. However, it has now got a tendency to become extremely acidic after a few days - and I have put that down to being impossibly overloaded. I'm coping with more regular partial water changes and hoping to get my big tank going asap..... As to the big tank - it was changing rapidly without fish in and with total water change. I broke the whole thing down today and it had a slight sulphurous smell to the water - the media smelt of this too. So I replaced the carbon and filter wool, and the noodles with some Aquaone stuff. The plastic "bio balls" I boiled for a few minutes (they stood that okay). Then I rinsed the new media in some aquarium water and started again (after boiling the gravel, thoroughly rinsing out the whole tank, the ornaments, fake plants, a couple of live plants, the filter canister ............ took hours ). Fingers crossed ............... :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTee Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Well here's the progress report.......... Water was a little hazy after all my work (very mild, looked like ? a little bit of carbon or maybe noodle dust perhaps - despite my soaking) - its cleared today so that bit seems okay. BUT overnight after filling the water went from 7.4 or 5 to 6.4, and in the next 24 hours dropped to 6.2, where it is now. I've checked the tap water - left that overnight and retested next day - very slight shift of around 0.2 to 7.2 - so perhaps part of my problem is poor hardness - will investigate testing for that - can you buy kits for this? BUT if it is the problem - why has one tank (a 28 litre with 10 tetras and cherry barbs and a pair of gourami in it) remained stable over 2 weeks with only a small water top-up??? I no longer suspect my media in the tank, as I've replaced the noodles, wool, carbon with another brand. I've boiled the nylon bio balls. My only other hypothesis at this stage is some bacteria from the overloaded 35litre tank, which is also going acid, because I did put one relatively small live plant (which had got a bit tall and straggly) from that tank into the new one when I first set up. It got soaked and rinsed prior to being put into the tank again, but of course that wouldn't destroy all the bacteria on it. If this is the problem, it still seems a pretty rapid change in 100 litres of water from one small bacteria colony. Any thoughts everyone - not sure what to do now. My overloaded tank inhabitants mightn't mind the low PH given they're managing in low acidity now - but it doesn't give me much buffering for cycling and I don't like something like this that I can't understand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Tanks tend to go acidic over time due to the break down of waste and fish pee/poo and any uneaten food etc. If this happens fast it is usually because your water has a low KH or lacks buffering.. I would say this is your problem the solution is to add some small pieces of coral/crushed oyster shells/coral sand or baking soda with each water change. As I said above your media etc will be fine there was no need to replace it.. Just add some crushed coral or something to buffer your water it will be fine, or just live with a ph of 6.2 if its stable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTee Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks, will try your tip but........... I put some platies (4 ) in the new tank the other night (after putting them in a container with some of their old water and then adding some new tank water to let them acclimatise for 10 minutes or so) Didn't expect a problem as the PH was almost the same in both tanks (6.2 vs 6.4) - BUT all the fish were at the surface almost immediately - thought it was perhaps a stress response so left them but they remained there for the next couple of hours. You could see their gills going 90 to the dozen the whole time - so I ended up returning them to their old tank fearing I might have dead fish by morning!. They seemed to come right after a short period in their old tank - not a sign of surface breathing! What is going on???. This happened the last time I tried to put fish in the tank (before I discovered the whole PH thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 whoa. this sounds too complicated. right, so you take said fish. put them in a half filled bucket with water from their current tank. then you take some water from the other evil tank that they dislike. add some in. then you do some chores and what have you. come back, and add some more water in (maybe even fill the bucket with evil water). the whole process can take a few hours if you like. then plonk the fish in the new tank they did not like. they should be fine - if they are not - consider the possibility that an unseen contaminant is in the water (like aerosol spray). do not worry about your pH. I am almost certain something else is to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I have to agree, the fish generally wont exhibit symptoms like you have described from being changed from 6.2 to 6.4 I regularly do this with most of my fish in the fishroom with no ill effects.. Gasping at the surface is usually a sign of poisoning or lack of oxygen in the tank sometimes caused by the tank being too hot or overstocked.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr McFish Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Do you have much flow in the tank they don't like as I read a lack of oxygen in the water can cause the water to go acidic, which would also explain why the fish where breathing fast. I myself had this problem when I started up my second tank I put it down to decaying plants and lack of airation. What was the temp difference between tanks? 10 minutes doesn't seem that long to acclimatize for. If they seem strest out it may be because the lights are bright I allways leave the lights off for a couple of hours after adding a new fish seems to calm them down a lot. I agree that the ph itself won't be the problem. I have mine on 6 as the tank contains drift wood and is filled with rain water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTee Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'm inclined to agree that the whole PH thing must've been a red herring - but I'm not using any aerosols, the tank is right next to the old one - I've rinsed it thoroughly (more than once) with fresh water, clean cloth (no antibacterials, cleaners, etc etc ) replaced filter material, rinsed and wiped all ornaments, gravel was boiled to be on safe side, even rinsed the live plants - so I can't think what could be wrong. I am at a total loss......... Temperatures were set the same in both tanks at 26 deg (and according to thermometers about the same). I did turn the lights off as an experiment (they ARE brighter than my old tank), but the fish came straight back to the surface and remained there - I could try leaving them off for a longer period and seeing what happens - maybe my fish are just stress-bunnies??? It still seems extremely odd though - you'd think they'd want to hide not sit right under the lights - unless there's something wrong with the oxygenation - but there are very few live plants and there's 100 litres of clear water only a couple of days old - surely not?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr McFish Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Wheres the filter out take pipe positioned, make sure it is making surface agatation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Its a 100L tank and only 4 platties, unless the temp is like 35C then I doubt it is an oxygen issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTee Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 FINALLY .......... some progress. Fed up with this whole tank business I decided there just couldn't be anything that bad wrong with the tank any more. I checked the PH once again and ???? it was closer to neutral - around 6.8. I hadn't even touched the water but I had removed that live plant I'd put in from my other tank and put it in a separate bucket - I discovered it turned the water acidic in a matter of hours ?? Anyway, its not going back in after that. I think my water is not well buffered but unfortunately they'd sold out of KH test kits, however will get one asap and if that proves to be true, will add a little buffering material. Also suspecting my platies were wimps - and perhaps needed longer to acclimatise than I gave them. I got some new cheap fish to put in my tank. 5 x-ray tetras. They've been in there 36 hours - swimming about happily - no gasping, no fuss. :bounce: So far so good. Now we start the cycling process........................ Thanks for all the input everyone - I've learned a lot more through all this........doubtless there will be more to come! :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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