help help is it a parasite ?????????

[trace&steve]

hi all :bounce: :bounce:

im abit concerned about my cichlids theres a mix of malawis and peacocks!!!

i brought a peacock the other week and it looked as so it has abit of a sunken in tummy so i thought it may have been abit skinny so i put it in our 700litre tank with the rest of our babys!!!!

i have always taken notice of there bellys i always make sure they are all good now ive noticed afew of my malawis look as so they are skinny and a hollow tummy is this a parasite?????? im so worried all our water tests are fine they are not skinny all over just under there bottom fins or is there ment to be a little indent from folding there fins up???

if its a parasite how and what do i treat it with?????????

any help please!!!!!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[firenzenz]

Could be a few things.

Can you get some 'prazi' for worming, most probable cause at this stage.

What size was the fish you introduced.

Up your feeding, and decent waterchange after worming.

[trace&steve]

hi firezenz...

ok ill start with the worming thanks the unknown peacock i got is about 15cm give or take and there was an malawi eyebiter its about 10cm to i got from the same person that has the same problem!!!!

i have never had this problem seen it in other peoples tanks !!!!

other wise they are all eating fine and seem to be fine just the sunken in tummys are a bit of a worry :roll:

thanks for your help...

Could be a few things.

Can you get some 'prazi' for worming, most probable cause at this stage.

What size was the fish you introduced.

Up your feeding, and decent waterchange after worming.

[smidey]

it could also be nothing, try feeding a bit more than normal & see what happens. have you been increasing the amount fed as they grow? are they eating algae if there is any?

[firenzenz]

but worming wont hurt them either.

[trace&steve]

ive just got home from trying to buy some worming stuff for them no one has it in chch !!!!!

so ive been told any ideas where to get some from!!!!!!!

but worming wont hurt them either.

[smidey]

feed them more than you usually would tonight & see what happens.

[ryanjury]

ive just got home from trying to buy some worming stuff for them no one has it in chch !!!!!

so ive been told any ideas where to get some from!!!!!!!

Droncit from the vets is prazi, but you would need a truck load for a 700L tank might pay to drop the water level as much as possible before treatment.. Also just treating with prazi maybe useless as there are many different types of worms that may require different drugs..

[trace&steve]

so its worth treating with prazi then!!!! i also have a huge ghost knife in with the cichlids hes about 25cm long should i treat everything in the tank it wont harm any will it???

on to it calling the vets

thanx for your help :bounce: :bounce:

Droncit from the vets is prazi, but you would need a truck load for a 700L tank might pay to drop the water level as much as possible before treatment.. Also just treating with prazi maybe useless as there are many different types of worms that may require different drugs..

[firenzenz]

Hi

I'd say-If you can get some, then for sure

"Prazi" is praziquantyal and is the drug. Droncit is a trade name of that product. A intestinal wormer for sheep,cattle, dogs and fish.

If you know a farmer...!

As Ryans has said it won't deal to all worms but your symptons sounded likely as intestinal. 'Still eating but not gaining'.

I go 15ml/100ltrs on my malawi tanks. mix in well, turn off filter but not bubblers for 30 mins.

Vacumn well nxt day.

I do this as a regiular program if tank has new outside inhabitants.

[trace&steve]

ok we were feeding them up to 3 times a day and they started scratching so we were told to feed them once a day and they came right!!! i would always sneek in a lil extra :oops: :roll:

are cichlids ment to have flat tummy or abit of a round shape??? peacocks are flatter but i think this peacock i have is to flat!!

i fed them extra last night went and brought some new pellets nutrafin max cichlid spirulina meal sticks some of them love them some are abit fussy they look abit better today...

hpefully the vet will get back to me asap!!also ive heard blood worms can be bad for malawis ????

does anyone live in chch that knows abit about malawis that could come over and have a look??? ill give u gas money of course im in hornby!!!

cheers

it could also be nothing, try feeding a bit more than normal & see what happens. have you been increasing the amount fed as they grow? are they eating algae if there is any?

[smidey]

try the same feeding for a few days & see what happens, i have found them to be really hardy, easy to keep fish so most times its better to look at the simpler cause of a problem rather than something that you can't really confirm for sure. I really don't like the idea of throwing in meds without proper cause, people will say "yeah it's fine" but do we really know for sure & anyway, in the lake they will die so IMO it's best to try to keep things as natural as possible within reason. the only fish i have ever lost have been due to my own mistakes not illness or attack from others.

I feed a few types of food to my africans & feed them morning & night. When i feed there is always food left on the bottom for up to half an hour after, i have found them to be "slowish eaters" especially with the hard sinking sticks as they have to crush it up & they will spit & re-eat a few times.

i feed mainly jbl novorift sinking sticks, jbl novovert & sera granugreen. they also get sushi wrap, shelled peas, beans & blood worms on the weekends. this includes my tropheus which are supposed to be the worst for bloat & i have never had a bloat case in any fish.

[trace&steve]

yeah ok ill keep the feeds up everyday for the next few days and see how they go!!!

thanks heaps for your help smidey,,,,

ill keep ya posted!!!

so blood worms as a treat then thought as much omg so your tropheus is ok with blood worms my brother just lost his the other day it just sat on the bottom lost all its colours then died afew days later!!! he thought it may of been the bloodworms!!!

try the same feeding for a few days & see what happens, i have found them to be really hardy, easy to keep fish so most times its better to look at the simpler cause of a problem rather than something that you can't really confirm for sure. I really don't like the idea of throwing in meds without proper cause, people will say "yeah it's fine" but do we really know for sure & anyway, in the lake they will die so IMO it's best to try to keep things as natural as possible within reason. the only fish i have ever lost have been due to my own mistakes not illness or attack from others.

I feed a few types of food to my africans & feed them morning & night. When i feed there is always food left on the bottom for up to half an hour after, i have found them to be "slowish eaters" especially with the hard sinking sticks as they have to crush it up & they will spit & re-eat a few times.

i feed mainly jbl novorift sinking sticks, jbl novovert & sera granugreen. they also get sushi wrap, shelled peas, beans & blood worms on the weekends. this includes my tropheus which are supposed to be the worst for bloat & i have never had a bloat case in any fish.

[smidey]

yes as treats but i really think variety is the key, just like people. i feed 2 cubes of BW in a tank of around 30 fish so they don't really get that much each after the fight is finished. in the lake they will feed on what ever is available at the time which will change as the seasons do. there are fish we keep the are noted as carnivores, fryeri is one but mine get alot more vegetable matter then meat & they do very well & i'd doubt there are many out there that are feed prodominantly meat.

i have seen a few national geographic doco's that have been really informative & gives a general idea of how it all works. they have to eat what is available or die.

did he only have the one tropheus?

[trace&steve]

what size is your tank that you have 30 in??? ours is 700 litres we have about 22 malawis about 7cm to 18cm do you think thats to much in the tank ?????

ive just noticed a white stringy poo from the eyebiter i got off this person i got the peacock off to!!!!!!!

yes as treats but i really think variety is the key, just like people. i feed 2 cubes of BW in a tank of around 30 fish so they don't really get that much each after the fight is finished. in the lake they will feed on what ever is available at the time which will change as the seasons do. there are fish we keep the are noted as carnivores, fryeri is one but mine get alot more vegetable matter then meat & they do very well & i'd doubt there are many out there that are feed prodominantly meat.

i have seen a few national geographic doco's that have been really informative & gives a general idea of how it all works. they have to eat what is available or die.

did he only have the one tropheus?

[smidey]

what size is your tank that you have 30 in??? ours is 700 litres we have about 22 malawis about 7cm to 18cm do you think thats to much in the tank ?????

ive just noticed a white stringy poo from the eyebiter i got off this person i got the peacock off to!!!!!!!

300L 4 footer, my africans aren't going to get much more then 5 inch or so generally due to what they are except for the red empress but they are around 3 inch at the moment.

how about a pic of your tank? I would have thought you wouldn't have any issues have quite a few more in there. how much filtration have you got running?

[ryanjury]

Prazi wont hurt the fish though and it is relatively easy to get and treat with so might be worth it just for piece of mind..

Are you keeping your peacocks with mbuna?

Peacocks are known to be skinnier more stressed and more prone to diseases when kept with mbuna who chase them around all the time and get all the food etc.. Most people in the know don't recommend mixing peacocks and mbuna.

[smidey]

i do & always have kept peacocks with mbuna without any problems what so ever. my baenschi have breed almost twice as many fry as any other fish i have had for the same length of time & i would almost be certain the male was the dominant fish in the tank as he did more chasing than any other fish.

[trace&steve]

the filtrations all good ill take some pics but dont know how to load them to a photo bucket!!!! :roll:

yeah i have mbuna in with my peacocks there only 2 peacocks though rest are mbuna and a large ghost knife and a large pleco!!!! they all get on fine never really had any problems...

300L 4 footer, my africans aren't going to get much more then 5 inch or so generally due to what they are except for the red empress but they are around 3 inch at the moment.

how about a pic of your tank? I would have thought you wouldn't have any issues have quite a few more in there. how much filtration have you got running?

[trace&steve]

just heard back from the vets she reckon ill have to take all the cichlids out put them in containers and treat with for 5 hours then put them back in!!!!!!! does this sound about right?????

Prazi wont hurt the fish though and it is relatively easy to get and treat with so might be worth it just for piece of mind..

Are you keeping your peacocks with mbuna?

Peacocks are known to be skinnier more stressed and more prone to diseases when kept with mbuna who chase them around all the time and get all the food etc.. Most people in the know don't recommend mixing peacocks and mbuna.

[ryanjury]

No that is wrong, you want to put it in the water, I think it lasts a few days which is what you want as it would treat the live parasites and then any eggs that hatch and break the cycle.. Don't ask your vet for advice on how to treat your fish you will be hard pushed to find one that knows what they are doing, just ask them for droncit tablets for worming your cat work out how many you want first.

Generally mixing peacocks and mbuna isn't good every tank I have done it in the peacocks haven't done as well many experts would agree.. It is upto you though as they are your fish and you may have more dominant peacocks or less aggressive mbuna, peacocks seem to go well with yellows as they are passive and demasoni because they seem too busy beating the snot out of each other to bother them.

From http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/peacocks.php

"Not all Lake Malawi cichlids make suitable tankmates. Peacocks should not be housed with Mbuna or other boisterous cichlids such as Labeotropheus, Petrotilapia, Metriaclima, or Pseudotropheus species. While it is true that Mbuna and Peacocks both live in the rocky biotopes of Lake Malawi, they infrequently have contact. Peacocks typically reside at a depth of 6 to 40 m; Mbuna on the other hand, are usually found in the upper 5 m of the water column (Spreinat 1995). The reason for this difference is due to dietary differences between the two groups. Mbuna graze the algae growing on the rocks in the lake. The algae require strong light in order to flourish. Peacocks live at depths far too deep for the algae to grow in abundance. It follows therefore that Peacocks and Mbuna are not natural conjoiners.

Mbuna and Peacocks make poor tankmates primarily because Mbuna have a considerably more aggressive temperament (some would even say obnoxious). Their aggressiveness and hyperactivity have a tendency to stress the Peacocks. Keeping Mbuna together with Peacocks usually proves deleterious to the latter who are kept in a constant state of subordination. Some hobbyists who mix these two fish may argue that no such unfavorable conditions exist. This may sometimes appear superficially to be true, but Peacocks kept with Mbuna do not grow as fast, are less colorful, and do not live nearly as long. Peacocks removed from such an environment show dramatic turnaround within a short period of time, confirming the sensibility of this recommendation. "

[smidey]

No that is wrong, you want to put it in the water, I think it lasts a few days which is what you want as it would treat the live parasites and then any eggs that hatch and break the cycle.. Don't ask your vet for advice on how to treat your fish you will be hard pushed to find one that knows what they are doing, just ask them for droncit tablets for worming your cat work out how many you want first.

you don't think that a vet might have some idea about what they do? you must give what they say some merit surely?

Generally mixing peacocks and mbuna isn't good every tank I have done it in the peacocks haven't done as well many experts would agree.. It is upto you though as they are your fish and you may have more dominant peacocks or less aggressive mbuna, peacocks seem to go well with yellows as they are passive and demasoni because they seem too busy beating the snot out of each other to bother them.

i have mine with fryeri, red zebs, cobalt blues & red empress & they are fine. there's an exception to every rule or generalisation.

[ryanjury]

lol yes I have no doubt the vet knows about treating animals but most have no idea about treating fish.. I have heard a few like to bull$$$t their way through it without any actual knowledge.. I approached my one about treating fish they were honest they didn't know what they were doing and said if I knew what I wanted and how much to dose etc they would (within reason and for my own personal usage) prescribe the drugs for me. I would do my own research on things and just ask for them, droncit should be available without prescription over the counter.

There is always an exception to any rule which is what makes fish keeping so difficult to give advice on but also allows for some cool and unlikely things to be tried and succeed. All I know is what most of the experts and people in the know recommend..

[trace&steve]

i have someone coming over in the morning to she what she thinks!!!!

my vet i go to she seems to know abit about fish so fingers crossed were just gonna take the water down to 200litres but cos its all bio were going to drain the top water into a big drum and save it to put back in,,

then treat the tank with 200 litres with all the fish in it!!

once they have finished being treated for 5 hours as the vet has said get them out do a full gravel pump get all the water out and refill the tank with the water we drained out put back in a top up with fresh stuff !!!

does this sound ok????

lol yes I have no doubt the vet knows about treating animals but most have no idea about treating fish.. I have heard a few like to bull$$$t their way through it without any actual knowledge.. I approached my one about treating fish they were honest they didn't know what they were doing and said if I knew what I wanted and how much to dose etc they would (within reason and for my own personal usage) prescribe the drugs for me. I would do my own research on things and just ask for them, droncit should be available without prescription over the counter.

There is always an exception to any rule which is what makes fish keeping so difficult to give advice on but also allows for some cool and unlikely things to be tried and succeed. All I know is what most of the experts and people in the know recommend..

[ryanjury]

Seriously do some googling on Praziquantel usage for treating tropical fish I have never seen anyone suggest only bathing the fish for 5 hours.. They all say it is harmless and treat the fish in the tank, taking a potentially already sick out and stressing it out in a container for 5 hours probably wouldn't be good anyway.

This link here says treat and leave for 4-5 days then water change.

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products4.html

http://www.koivet.com/koivet/index.php? ... &Itemid=57

There are plenty of links for you to do your own research and make an educated decision on the matter before you treat.

Personally I would siphon your tank out as much as you can while still have heaters/filters running, dose with the prazi (2mg/L one droncit tab is 50mg) wait 4 days and do a water change, wait 3 days and treat again to break the cycle. After 4 days you can begin topping up your tank gradually with fresh water, I would do it over a few days to a week if you are going from 200L to 700L though. Also increase the feeding rate and see if the treatment + good water + increased food will beef them up a bit.

Of course if all that doesn't work then they maybe affected by another internal parasite and you may need to go down the road of treating with metro or levamasole.. That is the issue without dissecting the fish and looking at it under a microscope or analyzing poos etc it is nigh on impossible to find out what is affecting them by looking at them.