matthewY Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Every since I added those new discus in (which died!) I am not having the best of luck with my tanks.... Now the little runt one has turned completely dark. Its been like this for quite some time now and I'm wondering what it could be and what i could do. Its is still eating but it doesnt eat much as the bigger guys seem to get the bigger bits first. hes about 2/3 the size of teh next guy up the chain and ahs always been a bit smaller then the otehrs. I've had him for over 6 months now and havent had issues like this until the 2 discus I picked up were added (the 2 were in different tank for a week before being added). The 2 died within a month and now I wonder if this guy is sick cos of them or cos it was bound to happen being teh small runt. Looking at taking him out into his own tank tonight and seeing if I can deworm him or atleast feed him away from teh bigger guys fora while. I had been adding garlic gaurd in the food for the last few weeks as it was left over from trying to save the otehr 2 and I figure there would be no harm.... I havent seen any improvements :-( any help appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majik Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Hi there are there any other symptoms like white poops or any flashing or rubbing ,mabe you could try with a pp treatment first (potassium permanganate)it is messy stuff but is great to rid of any external parasites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicmack Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 does it have one gill clamped down or seem to have heavy breathing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted October 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 I need to create a list of these symptoms.... Will take a closer look tonight. I remmeber poop wise it was white :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 White poop could be flagallates ( protozoa ) different cures for different types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave+Amy Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 does it ever become lighter in colour or is it constantly dark? mine goes dark depending on which side of the tank they're in... how do you do a potassium permanganate treatment? what's that supposed to do? (new to Discus keeping to, wanting to know what to do before anything actually happens) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 i'd be very careful with potassium permanganate its very easy to overdose as you are using such small amounts. Its a very powerful oxidiser so if you overdose the results can be lethal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave+Amy Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 do you treat the whole tank with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted October 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 k, had a better look at the guy. He's currently in his own tank now and he hides behind the few plants in there. Theres no gravel, just heater and small filter. he struggles to swim a bit . gills are not red, more white but i wonder if i just cant see the gills or not Breathing at a rate of about 2 X a second.... Talked to a vet and they are happy to try afew things but would be nice to know what to try first..... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted October 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 also just found a dead cardinal in the main tank :-( all else in the main tank looks normal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicmack Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 is the white poo kind of segmented and does it hang from the body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted October 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 in segments and the segments look like they are held together by a long thin thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicmack Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 I wonder if maybe its an internal parasite and best does with metro tablets but you need to get these from a vet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAuckland Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 just remove all bio filter, stone, plant.etc....completely empty the tank, fill in 100% new water and let all of the discus stay inside again...Do a prophylactic treatment with PP at 0.2gm per 100liter of water (one day bath) follow by 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th day change 100% water again…if not much improve try antibiotic for 3 days bath.. Don’t mix formalin with PP or even put near to each other...may explode.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 be aware you need very accurate scales to measure PP to make sure the correct dose is given. I had a bad experience that resulted in me killing a fish with it so have steered clear and used gentler meds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discusguru Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 5 days treatment with pp without wc will probably kill the discus as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 i agree need to do something but I wonder about using metro as its a bit easier to dose with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majik Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 in my understanding 4 hours treatment with pp then neutralise with 1 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide then massive water change if no improvement re dose again next day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 its more the measuring accurately i was referring to. Unless you have digital scales its pretty difficult to measure 0.2gm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Never heard of PP before. I talked to the vet today and they gave me trichozole 400mg. 2 difefrent people indicated to do 2 different things, 1 dose the tank, 2 dose the food. They indcated its made with part metro which was what I'm after. Anyone used this before (trichozole) and would have correct instructions? Tank is about 300 - 350L and has a external filter with noodles / wool. Also has plants, gravel, GBA's, cardinals and 1 neon. I have a 5L container which I had used to acustom teh discus into the tank when they were small.... should I treat in that (floated in teh tank?). thanks for all teh help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majik Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 The best way to measure accuratley is to make a stock solution of 20grams of pp in 1 litre of warm to hot water shake to mix then add ,20 drops will treat 10 litres at 2ppm and so on.The aim is to retain the purple pinkish colour for 4 hours if water turns brown there is too much organic matter in tank you can add more stock solution relatively safely up to 6 ppm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Sorry, forgot to add... The dark discus has died :-( died on saturday night / sunday morning and buried on the hill with a sea view. Now the mission is to make sure that theres nothing else wrong with the tank. The bigger 4 discus are starting to spit food out (take 3 or 4 attempts before they actually eat). They are also rubbing on the plants a bit more and one started hiding but can still be coached to come up to the glass... dont know if i'm over reacting or not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majik Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I would advise you to treat the whole tank ,you can lower water level to conserve on meds .Remove any carbon from filters if yoiu run any as this will make medication useless .if your other fish will tolerate it crank the temp up to 32oC. you need to get an accurate volume of tank so you can treat . 1 tablet will treat 10gallons mix tablets in warm water and shake till your arm drops off then add to tank metro is ineffective after 8 hours 4 doses is usually enough waterchanges after 8 hours of treatment is recomended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majik Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I would treat tank anyway metro is reasnable safe and there does seam to be a problem once overcome with an ailment medical intervention is needed .If fish are still eating treating food may be eaiser althow i like to treat tank then i know its going to get in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 PP is really easy to get, just go into a pharmacy and ask for potassium permanganate. It's only about $5 for a jar that will treat much more than your tank. PP is quite harsh, so be careful if you choose to use it (good water changes, and make sure your tank water is clean before you start). The metro should be fine. You may find that you're seeing things that aren't really a big deal - lots of fish spit food, so maybe try some live food to give you peace of mind. I'm with majik, you're best off treating the whole tank. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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