chimera Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 I am getting a new tank made and have asked for the following holes. Holes at the bottom will be 50mm from the bottom of the tank. Holes at top will be 10mm below overflow. This is a birds eye view of the tank standing at the back of it (front of tank is at top, overflow back left) All holes will be 35mm in diameter. I have the following ideas for the plumbing: A, E = Streams C = Return from sump B = Feed for streams D, F = closed loop (F feeds D) G = overflow to sump I had considered holes underneath instead of back/bottom and can change if there would be a reason too. the guy making the tank said there is no concern with strength, glass is 10mm. Thoughts or any better ideas??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 That many holes? :roll: Why have any bottom?? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Holes in the side are more convieniet to plumb. Holes are safer in the bottom, all things being equal, more support at the bottom means less strain on the glass (assuming the stand is level). But either way, there are some rather large saftey factors used when building glass fish tanks, so there is no need to worry whether the tank will break or not. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Alan - Ive been told and have read never to underestimate the amount of water flow needed for a reef system. why have at the bottom? thats one of my questions! Layton - my thoughts precisely in regards to plumbing being easier. However, my main concerns with the tank and hence the post are: 1. are the position and number of holes sufficient? 2. are the closed loops/streams sufficient to provide enough water flow? Bear in mind its only a 5 foot/600mm deep tank (or 540 litre main tank + 460 litre sump and refugium) The actual size of the holes (35mm) and strength of the tank (tank maker assured there is no problem) is not a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 one question, what is hole "B" for? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Chimera, I see some 'major problems'. How are you going to 'feed' the streams? The are sub-merseable (sp?). This CAN-NOT work. Remeber you will need to get the power cable out of the plumbing too. Take a good a look at a stream before getting these holes drilled, but trust me, its a mistake. If I thought you could do it I would be doig it for my new tank, you can't. Also consider how big ahole you need to run 2x streams, thats 24000 litres an hr... BIG hole. Return from sump. 1st I would suggest not drilling it and using a sea swirl. However if your not going to use a sea swirl then drill the hole near the top (say 5cm down from the water level). You need this for protection of power failure of the return pump. If the pump stops your tank will drain. Which makes the overflow box pointless too. The overflow box prevents the tank from draining through a failed return pump. Hope this makes sense. feel free to PM you number to me and i'll give you a call to discuss if you want. Its good that your thinking about this stuff before doing it, give a chance to catch the problems. Hope this catches you in time. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 When I said 'streams' - I actually meant closed loops :oops: Hole B is to feed a closed loop for A & E (via a SCWD) Hole C is the return from the sump which is 10mm below the sump so if the pump stopped, it would not drain back (well, only the 10mm above it would) Streams sit over the edge of the tank anyway dont they? How do the streams suck in water, do they work similar like a powerhead? Does this make any difference to the holes now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Streams work like a boat propeller, with a cage around them to stop fish getting minced. They are totally submersible, the only part out of the water is the power cord. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 You are much better having the holes through the bottom of the tank, or if on the sides nearer the bottom. As holes are brought higher, the glass is moving more (bowing) so holes could have a negitive impact of the strength of the glass (creating a weak spot to start a crack). If it was me, I would be drilling in such a way that I couldn't see the intakes and exausts. The big advantage of drilling is to hide the plumbing. How big is hole 'G'? I suspect the ideal size for the closed loops is 20mm (Eheim 1260/1262). The sump return should be 25mm and the overflow should be 30-35 (or bigger if you can swing it). If you are not using a sea swirl to feed the tank and are going to drill. Why not drill 2 'returns' and put a 'T' joint or a 2nd SCWD to create more flows? Just a thought. If you are going to use a big pump (say 5000+) then it may be a good idea to split it off. If your going to use a Sea Swirl (reccomended) then no need as the current from the big pump will sweep the tank and create 'true' randomness to the current as the sweeing current intersects. Very cool. Looking good though, right on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 thats good cos when i saw stream hole E i got worried the front of yr tank would get blown off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 cheers guys. pies - plumbing will mostly be hidden behind rockwork (except for the top but those pipes will be black so almost unseen) all holes (including 'G') are 35mm (then i can always squeeze smaller if needed). the 2 x closed loops will be running eheim 1060's, not 1260/1262's so we're talking over 2,000 l/hr each then there's also the sea swirl or streams on top of this (havent decided which yet). i will consider the sea swirl, its just $$$ versus the wife at the moment and the wife is winning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Another thought. Your tank is 1500 long, which is fine, but if you can make it another 40 long you will find that 5ft fluros/t5 fit easier. 1500 is going to be tight. A few more ml makes things a lot easier. I made my tank 1600 long for the exact reason, give me some room for my 5ft T5s. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Use the sea swirl, don't drill the sump return. You can always just use an 'up and over' for the short term untill you have the $. If you drill it, ou will be left with a hole with no where to go once you install the sea swirl. I still would consider moving hte plumbing down. It will stick out like dogs bits back or not. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 i see i can order a sea swirl online from here: http://aquariumcurrentsincn.goemerchant7.com/ for about $310 NZL which includes shipping (for a 3/4 inch sea swirl return device) or would i need a 1" swirl instead? Is that price about right? not too bad really... if i didnt have my car window smashed in yesterday and my wallet (and car speakers) stolen i would buy it online right now... :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I am using 2x 3/4 inch Sea Swirls, Nick S brought the 1" version recently. Sounds like a good price though. I have read that their is some noise from the 1" version, where ast rh 3/4 is completely silent. Confirm that with Nick, not sure where I read it. If the 1" is silent (noise prolly not an issue for you since tank in another room anyway) then its a factor of the return pump. Probably hard not to reccoment the 1" (can always throttle it at the injection point). Sea Swirls are cool 10/10. Make sure its setup for 240v not the 110 that the USA uses... Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Probably cheaper buying a transformer and a 110V sea swirl than getting a 220V one locally. That's what I'm planning on doing eventually, but,I've already got the transformer near my tank running my PC speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 cool, they have the NZL/AUS versions for sale online there too (in fact, the site i posted above is the online ordering link direct from the sea swirl site anyways) the 1 inch is US$250 (or about NZ$370) which includes shipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Ghetto. Do it once, do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 way ghetto styles!!! it's actually cheaper (by US$10) to buy the NZL one rather than the UK one http://aquariumcurrentsincn.goemerchant7.com/index.cgi?PageToView=catalog&Department=79552&Cartid=86601088992865&Merchant=aquariumcurrentsincn&ExpandedDepts= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Prices I've seen here was about a $300 nz price difference. I'll have to have a look at that site. Oh, and Pies, PM me your address, I've been trying to PM, call and email you. This time I'll put the damn thing somewhere safe instead of in my saved PMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 just put the link in for the 1 inch above (the europe version is US$20 cheaper, the UK is US$10 more) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 nicks got one recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I just rang nick to find out. He said he bought a 3/4" sea swirl about 5 months ago and hooked up to an Iwaki return pump. He bought it in the USA for US$200 or around NZ$285 at the time. He said the guys there recommended he get a 3/4" as it would perform better than a 1" for his setup. He reckons a 3/4" for mine would be fine also. so, all in all the 3/4" for NZ$310 delivered aint too bad... My return pump needs to be submersible and capable of pumping about 2.5'ish metres straight up. nick reckoned that the head height isnt as crucial as the friction within the pipe (ie: sharp bends etc) anyways I was considering the ocean runner range. i would guess the 3500 model would be sufficient (3500 l/hr) Thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Not sure if nick is right, as friction doesn't make much difference from what I have read. However turns (elbows and 45s and Ts) do effect the Head. Personally I would use an BIG enternal pump, Iwaki etc. There are a few around 2nd hand, they have a good reputation and don't tranferr heat anywhere near as much. I know you have a chiller, but still... My 740ltr reef got about 7000 an hr (2x Ehiem 1262s) and worked well. Remember the sump pump and sea swirl work together, so the more the sump return is doing, the more the sea swirl is doing. I'd be looking at 5000 ltr+. I want 8000+ for my new tank. Piemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Pies, I think by friction, he means the elbows etc affecting the head, not the friction from the sides of a straight pipe. Good point about the length of the tank too. Just a little bit wider makes life easer fitting things like standard sized lights and the like. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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