GBA is what?

[Adrienne]

What exactly should GBA stand for

Golden Bristlenose Ancistrus

or

Golden Black Eyed Ancistrus

Some enlightenment on the above would be great! :roll:

[Ktttk]

i think its Golden Bristlenose Ancistrus .

[Billaney]

Ancistrus sp. L144 Blackeyed Golden Ancistrus

[Adrienne]

So therefore when people say GBA they are talking Golden Bristlenose Ancistrus?

If they have the blackeyed version there should be the L no listed as well if its done properly?

[evilknieval69]

Its is both. Theres no difference between the two; some say golden blackeyed ancistrus, some say golden bristlenosed ancistrus

[Adrienne]

Okay then, I have some golden bristlenose ancistrus with the red eyes, in other words the albino ones. They were sold to me as GBA - so what should these be called. m At the time I didn't know you could get blackeyed ones.

This is why I am asking so many questions.

[Ktttk]

The red-eyed ones are the albino variety of the common brown bristlenose. The GBAs (L144s) are a different species to the common brown BN. I'm not sure if there is an albino variety of the GBA available.

[evilknieval69]

Theres GBAs, which are golden with black eyes, and the red eyed ones are called Albino bristlenoses. The albino ones are not as common as GBA's, and are worth more.

[Adrienne]

Okay, thanks, I have about 6 of them.

[FuglyDragon]

GBA = Golden Black Eyed Ancistrus = L144 which is a genetic mutation (amelanistic = lacking dark pigment) of a common Ancistrus that breeds true if both parents have the gene.

Golden Ancistrus is an albino common ancistrus, another genentic mutation from a common ancistrus. It also breeds true if both parents have the gene.

If the parents are mixed or not pure you get a mixture of young, most brown colored 'commons'.

While both mutations do happen naturally both these fish have been effectively inbred by aquarists to produce true breeding strains and do not exist 'in the wild'.

[Ktttk]

GBA = Golden Black Eyed Ancistrus = L144 which is a genetic mutation (amelanistic = lacking dark pigment) of a common Ancistrus that breeds true if both parents have the gene.

Golden Ancistrus is an albino common ancistrus, another genentic mutation from a common ancistrus. It also breeds true if both parents have the gene.

If the parents are mixed or not pure you get a mixture of young, most brown colored 'commons'.

While both mutations do happen naturally both these fish have been effectively inbred by aquarists to produce true breeding strains and do not exist 'in the wild'.

So are you saying that both the GBA and the albino BN are just variations of the common brown BN species?

[FuglyDragon]

In essence yes.

There is debate as to exactly what a species 'common' ancistrus is, they hybridise so easilly that it is almost impossible to come up with a definative identification. They are generally refered to as ancistrus sp(3)

The research I did for my web site turned up this...

The original amelanistic male (L144) Ancistrus was wild caught in Paraguay; he was bred with a normal female and then the resulting offspring were re-crossed until the defect became ‘fixed’ and all offspring produced from a pair had the defect. There is debate as to exactly which species of ancistrus he was, and which species the female(s) were.

However the L144 (GBA) we have in New Zealand are highly unlikely to be 'Pure L144' anymore, thats one of the reasons you often get GBA's with brown patches / blotches on them. They have been hybridised and crossed with 'commons' so often. Its probably more accurate to refer to them as GBA Golden Black Eyed than as L144

As an experiment I bred one of my male GBA's with an albino female and the resulting fry were all 'common' in color, they will however carry a mix of GBA and Albino genes so if they ever bred with fish that have a similar mix of genes then some of the fry will be GBA some common.

That is why it is possible to get GBA fry from two seemingly 'common' parents. (I know of at least 2 pairs like this in Christchurch)

If anyone with some knowledge of genetics reads this I would love to know how the genetics work.

Also should point out that the above is simply my opionion after some research on the net and asking a few quextions at pleco fanatics and planetcatfish. I am in no way an expert on genetics or fish biology, just a keen amature... if anyone has any further or conflicting info Im allways keen to learn more.

[Ktttk]

hey FuglyDragon, thanks for sharing your opinion. I remember doing some research on it a while back and coming to the conclusion that the GBA and common BN were probably from the same species. I posted a thread about some of my GBA offspring developing black patches which led to the question of whether GBAs and common BNs are the same species. I was quite strongly informed that they are different species and should not be interbred. To this point, I am still not entirely sure that they are the same species or not but have chosen not to interbreed them.

But I get the feeling that somewhere along the way, people have interbred the GBA with the common BN.

On a side note, I have a pair of breeding albino BNs and the result of their offspring thus far is all brown. They have bred about 5 times already and every single one that has survived is brown.. This topic has discussed a few times in a couple of threads on this forum and also at plecofanatics and planetcatfish. From what I've read, there appears to be two forms or two genes responsible for albinism in BNs. One type of albinism results in a white/pale fish and the other gives a more yellowish looking fish - both have red eyes and two separate genes are responsible for each albinism. If you breed a 'pale' albino with a 'yellow' albino then it appears you will get brown offspring because the offspring are heterozygous for both albino genes. I have noticed that my albino male is very yellow whereas the female is very pale (different forms of albinism) and thus far all their offspring are brown.

This of course is only my opinion based on what Ive read and what I've seen with the fish I have.

[FuglyDragon]

Its at times like this that I really wish I had taken Biology at school Would be good to actually understand all the recessive and dominant genetics stuff.

Interesting you note different shades of yellow in the albinos, I have also noticed this in GBA plecs in my LFS, there seems to be two different shades of yellow, one pale one gold both of which have the black eyes.

Could be caused by a lot of factors other than genetics though, such as food, water conditions etc

Whilst I agree that ancistrus sp3 and L144 are / were probably different species. I feel that most of the GBAs we see in New Zealand now days are hybrids and not true L144. Not that that makes them any less spectacular in any way, an adult male GBA against a dark brackground is still a very impressive specimen no matter what his genetic background.