sorcha Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: Sick Kribs any advice? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi there, I've had 2 pairs of Kribs for about 6 months I guess and over the last few days the 2 females have gotten sick, sort of panting/gasping & just hanging near the bottom of the tank in the same place & noticed in one of the females that her eyes are really sticking out. One female died yesterday. Does anyone know what causes this? The 2 males are still healthy so far. I've noticed my ph has been dropping & nitrates slightly high. Thanks Sarah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 What about ammonia & nitrite levels? Conditions that cause elevated nitrates often cause decreased oxygen levels, which will stress out the fish. Explains the heavy breathing & also this inturn exposes them to other diseases. You should reduce the levels. You have to look at what you are doing wrong. How long is tank running? How much & often do you feed the fish? How often do you do water changes? Growing plants help reduce nitrates. Bottom line is... Keep the tank clean – Waste ultimately produces nitrates. Cleaner tanks produce fewer nitrates in the first place. The swollen eyes lead me to think bacterial disease.. Best bet is to look at what you are doing wrong. I would be doing a few 30% water changes this week. Hopefully the other fish don't catch anything in the mean time. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Swollen eyes also make me think bacterial - how often do you do water changes, you may need to increase these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcha Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Hi there, Thank you both for your reply. Ammonia & Nitrites are 0,nitrates have been increasing recently and are about 40-80, way too high, I have a 5ft 400L tank, with a Jebo cannister filter, undergravel filter & airpump. I feed 2-3 times a day, including flake & pellets. I had alot of plants but now most are dead or eaten, the ones remaining are quite healthy & have ordered some more aswell as fertiliser for them. I do water changes every couple of weeks, try to do them weekly, I think I'm most likely not changing enough water as 4 buckets is not much in a tank this size, but I thought the filter etc could handle it. Perhaps I am a bit overstocked too? I have about 20 fish, 6 of them are at least 10cm, all the other fish (touchwood) are healthy and some have been breeding. Do you recommend to do more water changes ie weekly & more water at a time, what about nitra zorb? I think I might sell a few fish too, it's ashame I was really enjoying the Kribs and they had been doing so well, always had amazing colourings, I really don't want the males or other fish to get sick so will do a water change today. Tank has been set up about 4 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I did a quick search on google and I think excess nitrate seriously interferes with oxygen levels. It also mentioned that it makes the tank sucecptible to pH crashes cause it changes the buffering capacity of the water and one article recommends 25% water changes daily until tings are back to normal. (ie: you might want to check you pH too!!) Sounds like you need more plants to soak up the extra nitrates if you're hoping to keep your current stocking rate and maintenance regime! :oops: Have you got an algae problem too with nitrates that high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcha Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Hi Jn, Thanks for that, yes algae has been growing recently, along with pH levels dropping down to about 6.6 last time I checked, was always at 7. Right, the mission, I will do some serious water changes this week and get some more plants, I think not having enough plants is a big factor, I have moved the other sick female krib to a different tank which has low levels of everything but I think it is too late as her eyes have since yesterday starting sticking out aswell. Will do daily water changes to get the nitrates right down & tomorrow head to the petshop for a few more plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Hi, I water change weekly and alternate between 30% and 50%. ie week 1 30%, week 2 50% and repeat this. Some change more often and way more, it depends on the type of fish you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 nitrates have been increasing recently and are about 40-80, way too high I had alot of plants but now most are dead Probably related, the dead plants will be rotting and increasing the nitrate, decreasing the O2 and generally causing problems. I would clean out all the dead / dieing plants and do some more water changes untill you get the nitrates down, lower the better. Live plants use nitrates and produce 02.. dead plants the reverse. The filter does nothing about the nitrates, it just helps convert the ammonia and nitrite into... you guessed it... more nitrate :-? The high nitrate/ low oxygen then stresses out the fish and leaves them susceptable to all sorts of bacteria, fungi and parasites that they could normally fight off. If the tank is highly stocked you will have to up the water changes to keep the nitrates down, you can keep a crazy amount of fish if you have enough filtering and do enough water changes. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 40litres every 2 weeks is no where enough water changes when you have 2-3 times a day feeding. Once a day is plenty for most fish species. Do you use a gravel vac when doing water changes? "Living" plants will help & as Ian said the dead plant matter won't help. Look at your lighting, type of plants etc. Maybe look at hardier species like anubias & Val for example. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I can see how lugging buckets around to do enough water change on your tank could be a pain. I think you need a system that will do the work for you to make sure that it doesn't get neglected. I only have a wee tank but from other posts I've read I gather some people get a length of hose and run it out a window or to a sink and then use the hose to top up again. Maybe a good idea to start a topic to ask about the best tips for big water changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcha Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Hi, Thank you all for your advice, has been really helpful. I do use a gravel vac, I will also cut down how much I feed and ignore them swimming up to me when I walk past lol. I checked the tap water too and the pH is off the chart, very acidic, it used to be 7, I guess as it's been so dry and we are on a bore system that it has caused pH to drop, also tap water nitrates were about 5, however it is obviously alot to do with not enough plants or water changes, I did a change tonight which didn't seem to touch the nitrate level so tomorrow i'll get some bigger buckets or run a pipe out the window and do a real decent change & make sure I do a weekly change from now on. I also removed any dead plants and will try to buy some more plants tomorrow, especially hardy ones. I bought all stems originally so this time will look for more established plants. So if anyone has plants for sale that they can post please feel free to pm me, also I might sell my 3 pearl gouramis (approx 2yrs old) to destock if anyone local wants them pm me also. Cheers Sarah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I went to bunnings and got about 4m worth of hosing to fit on the end of my siphon- now i just chuck it out the window, start it up and away it goes. Still use buckets to fill it back up though but its certanly alot less hassle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 So how are you getting on Sorcha? Have you manage to drop your nitrates any yet? How's the krib? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcha Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Hi, I think the nitrates are improving but certainly nowhere near where I want them, I've done about 3 water changes and the last test the nitrates were about 20 or possibly 40, the female is still in the other tank which has very low nitrates and everything else is reading fine but she is still panting and although her colour has improved and she is swimming about she still isn't eating, I don't think she'll make it. Do you think it is anything to do with the water hardness? I have never tested for it, it just seems strange that only the kribs are affected, all the other fish seem to be thriving? Some articles read that Kribs like a bit of salt added and some say they don't? I will do another water change and check the filter isn't all clogged up. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 I don't know anything about kribs unfortunately But I've read heaps about salt and if the kribs can handle it I bet a bit of it might be good. I think it helps take the pressure off their osmoregulation system when they're stressed (I think that's right!). Also it would help make sure she didn't develop a secondary bacterial/fungal infection (IF they can handle salt of course!!) (Hey.. just found this on a google search: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/generalarticles/salt/ ) Do kribs tolerate the low pH you had in your tank? Could her gills could be 'burning'? I think they can get pH burn. If her colour is back then that's good news anyway. Keep us posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcha Posted July 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Hi, Thanks for that, that's interesting the article, I might try some salt. I have read that they are happy in a pH of 6.5-8, which seems quite a range, it's unfortunate our tap water is so acidic which I hadn't realised, it could well be burning their gills etc which is not nice! The tank she is in is now has pH 7 but I think the damage has been done, i'll try a few more things and keep you posted, the pet shop had a very poor selection of mostly dead plants so I am waiting for a few to arrive that I bought on trademe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcha Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi again, Well the other female died yesterday. I can't work it out, I've been reading up on Kribs again, it seems as though they are meant to be very hardy & can tolerate a range of conditions ie: pH 6.5 to 7.5 soft to hard fresh to brackish Any diet 24-27degrees So apart from the nitrates getting too high (which is not good!) I'm sure everything else should have been ok. I hate not knowing what the cause is, the other female had also been put in a tank where all the levels were fine I just think it had been too late. The nitrates are at a much better level in the big tank and have added a few more plants but I've been doing more or less daily water changes to get the levels right, maybe my filter needs a rinse? It still seems to me that it must something not right that affects the Kribs specifically as all the other fish have been thriving & mating, who knows! I think i'll sell my 2 male Kribs before they get sick as currently they are still looking very healthy and I'd hate them to get sick two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I really don't know this from experience might it be safe to assume they jut more sensitive to really high nitrates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 If your ph is very low, your earlier assumption could be right. Big changes will harm the fish, gills, internals.... If you use bore water & is prone to high variances, I would suggest you buy a test kit that covers, ph, gh & kh. I would be testing the water for these levels before new water is added to the tank & adjust accordingly. This link is used for african rift lake cichlids, but gives you an idea. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcha Posted July 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Hi, Thanks for your replies. Yes I agree with both statements, they could well be very sensitive to high nitrates and will also buy a test kit that covers, ph, gh & kh and test the water, we used to be on spring water at the old place and never had any deaths, this fish keeping is a complicated business! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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