new to marine advice on protien skimmer needed

[lduncan]

Dude, if you want to you could buy rock which is already cycled, meaning you dont need to go through the whole cooking process. The advantage of getting live rock is you dont have to wait...

That's not necessarily true in all instances. Sometimes live rock is loaded with more nutrients than dry dead rock. Which means you need to cook it for longer than you would dry rock. Either that, or take the risk with battling algae and cyano.

... you can get some cool added extras, possibly some free corals which have hitchhiked!

Yeah, hitchhikers like parasitic snails, nudibranchs, flatworms, invasive sponges and anemones... The existence of a lot of the "added extras" people refer to as "life", is often an indication the the rock is loaded with nutrients. There can be many disadvantages to starting with live rock, which can end up being frustrating, time consuming and expensive to clean up after.

After all, all you're wanting is rock with some bacteria to detoxify waste, not an entourage of superfluous hanger-oners.

Layton

[dude]

thanks but i think id be better off going through the whole cooking and cycling process it will only help me in the long run if something happens, and seems to be cheaper too plus gives me time to save some extra money for other things like fish while its going through the cycling process

[dude]

hey lduncan (layton) is it possible to get a pic of ur set up just wanna see what ur set up looks like, as a reference and quide for me to follow just want as much ideas as possible for when i get my set up going, thanks in advanced

[lduncan]

Yeah, i'll get some pics at some point. I've torn down my old 6 foot tank ( http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/layton ... t4928.html ) and setup a smaller 4 foot tank. (For a number of reasons)

But there are a few tanks around which I think are close to how I would setup my ideal tank, so i'll post some of those as well.

Layton

[dude]

thanks layton i noticed you didnt have any sand or anything at the bottom of ur tank is this ok i always figured that it could damage(scratch or crack) the bottom glass as in the big pieces of rock moving or droppin or is it glued in place

[davidb]

na mate. the bb tank stops high nitrates but we won't get into a debate about which is better). you wouldnt't wanna rest the rocks on sand man it would be way to unstable. all rocks should be on the bottom of the tank or on a reef rack

[davidb]

for rock try http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 006600.htm

not mine so mods don't ban me or anyting!

[Warren]

not mine so mods don't ban me or anyting!

Hey, no need to worry, we sorted this all out the other day...

[lduncan]

Depends how clumsy you are ;-) I've had a few rock slides, but no broken glass yet. The four foot has white HDPE (plastic cutting board) on the bottom, which looks a little better than just plain glass. Same as the stuff on the bottom of this tank:

Here's one tank which is close to how I personally would setup a tank:

http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76460

He seems to change his mind on things every week, so the things I like in particular are: good skimmer, lots of flow, full siphon overflow, two part calcium / alk addition, BB, minimal rock. I'd add a UV to it, and that's probably it.

Layton

[davidb]

noice. i like the orange acros

[dude]

ok so iv decided to go with a BB tank, tank is now goin to be around 220 ltrs (heard that the more water u have the more stable)100cm long 50 wide and 45 high, or something like that im in the middle to sorting out a warmer, lights and power head, skimmer is still going to be the deltec mce300, the rocks will start cooking on friday, what do u guys think about the setup so far, next up start looking at fish what can i keep i wanted a yellow tang but think the tank might be to small for it so not sure what i can keep in this size tank any suggestions??

[wasp]

i like the orange acros

Ain't photoshop a great thing! :lol:

Dude, your set up will be a similar size to mine, which is around 200 litres. I'd recommend going to the deltec 600, also a hang on, not a lot more dollars but a bit more grunt.

Just a few things I can add, firstly, rock "cooking" is an excellent idea, but can take a heckuva long time. Could be 6 months, or longer. Do it, but only if you are planning to wait that long. In a nutshell, the idea is to let the bacteria in the rock consume all the waste, in particular phosphate, that we don't want in our tank. So we keep the rock in clean as we can water, and the bacteria in the pores of the rock eat the waste, multiply, and through sheer numbers get forced out of the rock and land on the bottom of the tank as what is called detritus. This should be syphoned out regularly. Eventually after some months, less and less detritus is seen, and we know the process is nearing an end, most of the useable nutrients have been metabalised, and the rock is as clean as we will get it.

Alternatively, you can cure the dry rock just until it is "cycled" which means bacteria are established that eat ammonia, and nitrite. You test the water and first couple of weeks will see ammonia rise, and then fall as bacteria start converting it to nitrite. Then nitrite will rise and often about 4 weeks later will fall as bacteria are converting it to nitrate. This normally takes 6 weeks or a bit longer. Once this is done and nitrite is down to zero you can start adding a few things to the tank. You will also be waiting for the nitrate eating bacteria to kick in to reduce nitrate, but this usually takes several months but you can start stocking the tank before this as most organisms can tolerate some nitrate.

Of course, as the rock is not "cooked" and really clean, the rock will release phosphate into the tank, so some algae etc may be experienced, this is where a good skimmer, and only stocking and therefore feeding very lightly, at first, come in.

As to having sand or not, advantages and disadvantages both ways. Not having sand means you are able to syphon all waste and keep the tank cleaner. If you go no sand, and are clumsy, like I am, some protection on the glass is a good idea, just incase of dropping a rock or whatever. The cutting board Layton showed is a good idea, or in one of my old tanks I used some grey perspex which was perfectly fine. My current tank has black nylon cutting board.

If you don't "cook" your rocks before starting, I'd recommend going without sand, so it will be easy to syphon waste shedded from the rocks, plus other waste. After say, 6 months, if you are happy with the cleanliness of the tank, and you wanted sand, you could add it then, just simply tip it in, a little each day until you have what you want.

[dude]

im gonna go with no sand and will get some sort of protection for the bottom glass, i will take gettin a bigger skimmer into consideration when i go to get it, the tank will be very lightly stocked and 25% water change done every 2 weeks like my freshwater tank that i have now, do clowns fight each other if they are the same gender, i am looking at gettin 2 but dont want breeding or anything goin on in my tank lol

[wasp]

25% change each 2 weeks is overkill. Mostly, a 25% change monthly is plenty.

Some stuff you need to know about clowns before getting them. If there are 2 females they will fight & badger each other, in a tank your size, usually to the point one will die.

All clowns start life as juveniles, with no sex. As they grow a bit they join a group of clowns in an anemone, and eventually become a male. The group will have one female, who is the boss. When she dies, a male will turn into a female to take over as boss, and a juvenile will move up and become a male.

If you get 2 clowns, and neither are female, the more dominant one will become a female. Egg laying will then likely take place, however, this is not an issue in terms of pollution of the tank or anything, when the eggs hatch they will become food for whatever is in your tank can eat anything that size. In fact it should be a pleasure that your clowns are breeding, at least they are doing what they would in the wild.

[dude]

so if was to get 2 juvies then that would be ok or should i stick to one and just get other fish instead of having just the clowns

, and would i need a specific fish to eat the eggs and if any hatch would the babies get eatin, 25% water changes once a month sounds good so ill do that instead of the evry 2 weeks, is there any other info i need to know, and a question about rock cooking would this process happen quicker if the rocks were smaller pieces i got this theory that i should but you guys know better lol and then i could just glue the rocks together in the shape i want and form a large piece would this work???

[TM]

so if was to get 2 juvies then that would be ok or should i stick to one and just get other fish instead of having just the clowns

, and would i need a specific fish to eat the eggs and if any hatch would the babies get eatin, 25% water changes once a month sounds good so ill do that instead of the evry 2 weeks, is there any other info i need to know, and a question about rock cooking would this process happen quicker if the rocks were smaller pieces i got this theory that i should but you guys know better lol and then i could just glue the rocks together in the shape i want and form a large piece would this work???

Two small clowns would be fine. but at the end of the day you have to decide what fish you want

Any fish in the tank may eat them or other living things in the tank.

You may find that you do one 25% change a month but suck out a bit of rubbish every now and then.

You may find the cooking process to be a bit quicker with smaller bits but really depend on how dirty the rocks are to begin with.

If you take your time with this it will pay off.

[wasp]

What TM said.

Also, 2 juveniles would be good because they will sort out themselves who will be the male & female, and clownfish are social fish who naturally live in a "family", so would be happiest with more than one of them.

IMO they are one of the few marine fish who can live in an aquarium behaving exactly as they would in the wild, as they are quite content with the amount of territory they have, and live, act, and relate to each other completely naturally. Assuming they have an anemone.

[davidb]

clownfish are so dumb they probably don't realise they aren't actually in the ocean wasp!