Angel advice

[Stirling]

Hi

After months of trying to get my angels to lay eggs on a piece of granite in my community tank I moved them to a tank of their own - well almost there are 3 panda corys as well. Today they laid! http://www.flickr.com/photos/20157942@N00/457380119/

I'd like to leave them in with the parents to give them a go at rearing. Should I add methylene blue to the tank even with the parents in and should I remove the corys (they are < 1 inch)?

Also I have both a sponge filter and external filter going at the moment. When should I turn off the external?

I guess I'll need to start feeding BBS in a few days assuming all goes well. If you've any other advice I'd appreciate it.

Cheers,

Darren

[smidey]

my angels eat their eggs on the second day after laying them so i would remove my angels if i want fries. you should turn the external filter once the fries are free swimming so they don't get sucked up.

[ryanjury]

Give them a few goes at doing it themselves generally you will get less fry than artificially raising them or the parents may just never learn but its cool to see mum and dad angelfish swimming around with babies Obviously if you try 4 or 5 times and they just keep eating them then you will have to go down the artificial route..

You can add meth blue or something like that to help with the fungus but if they're good parents and the eggs have been fertilized you shouldn't have too many problems.. Also I think the cories will eat the egg's/fry at night removing them may well stress the parents into eating their babies..

Also turn off the external (unless you can turn it down or stick a sponge over the intake to avoid the fry being sucked up) and dont feed the babies until they are fully free swimming to avoid polluting the tank at all.

[alanmin4304]

When hatching eggs artificially you may need methylene blue to stop the fungus on infertile eggs spreading to fertile ones but this is because the parents are not there to clean the eggs. If you leave them with the parents you should not need to use it.

[AMAZONIAN]

Hi All,

If you want to talk "Angel's" PM me.

There is faaar tooo much to know to put in a simple post. :roll:

I breed Angel's like there is no tomorrow and have at least six colour strains going continually. 8)

Alan4304 is "right", Methylene Blue is used to stop the eggs fungusing. But thats not what I use solely. I add Acriflavine as well and attain hatch rates of upwards of 95%, and rearing rates of 90+%.

[Loopy]

Each to their own in my opinion! Everyone will probably have something different to say!

I don't use any chemicals. I leave eggs/fry with the parents as long as my gut instinct tells me to. I have success rates which i am very pleased with (300ish fry per spawn= a good amount for me to handle). I have one pair of angels who have kept their babies for over a month now and still going well! And another pair who can keep fry for upto a week from spawning and i know that if i want to keep the fry i siphon them out then.

I believe one of the joys of breeding is in getting to know and understand YOUR fish not just the species. Watch them and learn. and if something doesn't work, keep trying! Good luck!

[alanmin4304]

When I was breeding angels I used to have 8 pairs on the go at a time, with various gene combinations to try and get the full selection of types available. There are more new types available now that were not around then so I would hate to think how that would work today. I agree with amazonian, you can use mehtylene blue and acraflavine and I have used them with malachite also. Being a simple minded person I like to keep it that way and always start out with the simplest method and get more complicated if I have to. Being on Christchurch artesian water supply I often had good success with water straight from the tap at the right temperature. You need to see what works for you and stick to it. Good luck.

[Stirling]

Thanks for all your feedback so far. I decided to take the simplist approach and do nothing. So far they're doing great.

It's been 2 days now since the eggs were laid and this evening I noticed little wiggly tails poking out. I was dismayed to see the male angel start to eat them when this happened, but then noticed he's moving them to the filter outlet. It was pretty cool. He would take one of the wrigglers in his mouth, spit out the shell and the wriggler, then recatch the fry and move it to the new spot and go back and eat the shell. I've since turned off the filter and am now just running a sponge filter.

[alanmin4304]

They are doing the same cleaning that the methylene blue does. The only difference is that methylene blue doesn't get hungry. If you want to watch them raise the young or eat them leave them in there. If you seriously want to raise angels remove them.

[AMAZONIAN]

Hi All,

Mother nature is a very intelligent being.

What you observed when the parents were moving the fry, was the fry getting a "BATH".

Think on this:........................ :roll:

Mum has a couple of hundred babies, she has to give them a bath; how does she know who's bathed and who's not?.

She moves them to a new site and "MOUTHS" (Baths) them on the way, ONE by ONE. That way no fry misses out on a Bath and a coating of "medicine".

Also mouthing the eggs while they are incubating cleans them as well, thus protecting them from bacteria; but if bacteria is in the water while the eggs aren't being cleaned, how are they protected?

Fact:

Again Mother Nature intervenes and helps out.

While the parents are incubating their eggs, even before the bathing act, they produce an antibacteriacide in their mouths and that coats the eggs while they are incubating.

They also pass this on to the fry when they move them during the washing process.

Just a little bit of maybe useful information for those who would like to know a little bit more than most about Angel's.

This however, is appropriate to all Cichlids..

[Milet]

Where do you learn all this Amazonian? Your a brain box!

(btw i missed you when you dropped the kribs off to my brother in the weekend, wanted to show you my angels lol)

Do you ever let your angel parents raise their own fry?

[GZ_Loach]

Where do you learn all this Amazonian? Your a brain box!

(btw i missed you when you dropped the kribs off to my brother in the weekend, wanted to show you my angels lol)

Do you ever let your angel parents raise their own fry?

some fish lose there instinct because there been artificially raised so many times down the line.

[AMAZONIAN]

Hi All.

It is of no suprise to me that I seem to get a lot of accolades.

One NEVER stops learning, and the more you learn, the more your "Computer" retains.

I have had 48 years with my Tropical Fish and Plants, as a Hobbyist, a Breeder, and an Importer, and my passion for my fish is so high a lot of folk would think me insane.

That's until they need to know something.

I have been fortunate to have met and spent a few days with the "GREAT" Dr Herbert Axelrod, of TFH Fame.

I have met and spent time with Dr Jiri Stodola, a great botanist and very much into aquatic plants.

Plus I have spent a lot of time with "MYSELF" learning by observation, with scientific and chemical means and a Hands on approach to my hobby.

But the greatest inspiration in my love for the hobby is no less than one Bill Sievewright who took me under his wing as a lad of about 9 or 10. He was a neighbor as was his daughter and Grandson, who I played with.

From that time I was hooked and got my first tank on my 14th birthday in 1959.

[herefishiefishie]

Aren't cichlids great!!!

some fish lose there instinct because there been artificially raised so many times down the line.

hmm,

I am yet to see an african cichlid not know how to breed.

Or a female mouthbrooder not hold eggs.

My male Calvus eats the fry when they leave their home, just like in the wild too :roll:

The American cichlids I have had have protected the young too. Salvinis, convicts etc

The odd time I have seen fry not looked after, has been the odd discus pair, or first time breeders. Fish in bad setups etc.

I would always let Angels do the job. They tend to do a very good job with their young. As Ryan said, give it a few goes, sometimes parents do eat them, usually just the first couple of times. eg; Inexperience.

Like the reason they sometimes eat eggs, is that they aren't fertilised properly. Young males aren't fertile enough or it could be 2 females breeding.

Cichlids all have their adaptations, eg; mouthbrooders. Their eggs don't have the adhesive threads of egg layers, they don't want them to clump up in the mouth. They also tumble the eggs in their mouth in a circular motion, towards the rare along the bottom the mouth & then back along the roof of the mouth to the front. This is to assure good contact with oxygenated water. Thats why people who artificial raise africans for example need an egg tumbler of sorts for success.

Just like chemicals for egg layers if separated from parents.

Point for me is, I am with Amazonian, let nature do its thing. Its more interesting to watch too. Isn't that why we keep fish? Watch them do their thing?

Great post earlier to Amazonian 8)

Frenchy