Nickle Pickle Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Hey everyone. I have got a trio of albino BN and this is their second set of eggs (their first lot was a complete failure). After talking to a mate about raising the fry I have decided to remove the wrigglers from the father and put them in a breeding trap with an airstone to see if I get a better success rate than last time. I have a feelling that the reason they all died last time was because of the siamese fighters I have in the same tank having them for tea. Well any way...after close inspection of the wrigglers I have noticed that some (about half) of the babies appear to have black eyes and are starting to go dark in colour, similar to my normal bristlenoses. Has anyone else had the same experiences? I just thought it seemed kinda strange. Here are some pics for you: My male: One of my females: And a pic of some of the little ones, you can see how some of them have dark eyes comepared to some of the others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 nice pics and congratulations on ur spawn. not having breed these my self i can not tell u for sure. PM rcon021 as he has breed them a few times. albino is an recessive gene so its not surprising if some of them turn out to be normal as they would still carry the gene but its just not visible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 albino is an recessive gene so its not surprising if some of them turn out to be normal as they would still carry the gene but its just not visible. Them having the recessive gene is what made me think that all their babies would be albino. That is if my and knowlege of punnet squares from school biology is correct. I would have thought that the only time that there would be mixed offspring would be having heterzygote (sp?) parents and I would have assumed that a het parent would have the normal markings. I maybe completely wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Yes well i would have thought the same nickle pickle. You only have the albinos in the tank? No GBA's or normal BN they could have crossbred with? That could be another factor.... And also, you are 100% sure they are all albino BN, there isnt a GBA that you tought was albino for some random reason? Sorry, you probably arent that silly but im running through the different scenarios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 And also, you are 100% sure they are all albino BN, there isnt a GBA that you tought was albino for some random reason? I thought that question might pop up :lol: yes I am certain that they are all albinos. They have they whole red eye thing going on and there are no normal BN in the tank. They have a tank of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Them having the recessive gene is what made me think that all their babies would be albino. That is if my and knowlege of punnet squares from school biology is correct. I would have thought that the only time that there would be mixed offspring would be having heterzygote (sp?) parents and I would have assumed that a het parent would have the normal markings. I maybe completely wrong though. yes ur right but just because it's apparent is an albino doesn't mean it cant be a het. its more likely for a het to look more of the dominant gene but its not impossible for it to take the appearance of the recessive gene. we call this an incomplete dominance. most GBA would know this because every now and then ur get one with a black/brown patch where the dominant gene has shown though, creating this incomplete dominance appearance where both genes are presented in appearance but in this case from ur photo the dominate is hidden. like i said it could just be normal as i've not breed Albino BN before so i dont know what their fry looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 ahh ok that makes sense. So going by that, if i crossed some of my normal looking babies is there a chance that some of their babies could be albino too, or would these be completely dominant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 ahh ok that makes sense. So going by that, if i crossed some of my normal looking babies is there a chance that some of their babies could be albino too, or would these be completely dominant? breed the normal looking het back with its albino parents/siblings would give some albino off spring. breeding two normal looking het would most likely come out all looking like normal BN. if this is the case and u do have an albino looking het i would try and find out which one its is by breeding them with separate male and female. much easier than waiting a year to set ur own strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 most GBA would know this because every now and then ur get one with a black/brown patch where the dominant gene has shown though, creating this incomplete dominance appearance where both genes are presented in appearance but in this case from ur photo the dominate is hidden. if I remember my bio 101 corectly isn't this called co-dominance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 co-dominance is when u have two dominant genes coexisting in appearance, incomplete dominance is when u have a dominant gene that is not able to fully suppress the recessive gene. i could be wrong but this is how i understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted January 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Thanks for your help fishboi. I had a quick chat to my boss today about it and he recons the same as you. Although from what I understood he thinks that it is very unlikely if not impossible to get 100% albino babies. I'll post some more pics in about a week. I came home from work and I am surprised how much they have grown just in one day :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 yeah ur boss is right as u never really remove all gene when breeding so all albino will hold some dominate gene and in this case so much so it effects the appearance of the offspring. keep us updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 i dont know what happened ay. I have spawned them a few times but never got anything like this. I would expect 100% albino babies tho, cos both parents are visual albino. do you have any normal BN in the tank..just asking mate. It could have been a double spawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted January 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 definatly no normal bristlenose in the tank. I think i'll spawn my male with my two females seperately and see if I can narrow it down to a female having a more dominant gene and hopefully its just 1 female and not my male. I guess its not really a problem, just wont make as much money outa them :lol: I have breed my normal bristlenoses a few times but kinda just let them do their thing. I had no idea they grow so fast ova just a few days. I'll try and post some more pics tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Sorry to burst your bubble, but albino BNs aren't likely a cash cow. They have proven highly unpopular in overseas markets unless a long-finned variety, and have quickly moved into the same price bracket as normal colour BNs. So it honestly makes no diff if your ABNs are spitting out normal or albinos, it's very likely they'll all sell for the same price anyways. This is a virgin market, but I haven't seen much excitement over ABNs to date. Best of luck with your breeding anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lti Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 I didnt believe that nickle_pickle was operating under any sort of bubble. I'm sure he is aware of the price you can get for fish and i'm sure he isnt keen on fish just to make money. He is also correct, albino BN are worth more than normal BN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Yup, I stand corrected. Two (1-3cm) youngsters are selling for $55 on TM, so hey, that's a nice endorsement. I see that 3.5cm ABNs are on the pricelists, but breeders are always ableto get you whatevcer size and possibly sex you want, so always a better option. I'm thinking of swapping out my BN breeding colony for ABNs, why not, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Anywhooo...i found the answer to the problem while researching for information for my L255. There are apparently 2 different kinds of albino BNz. Which i agree with. The ones i had, which came from a supplier were a pure yellow form. Then there are ones that are still on the list which are of the yellow and white form (i have seen these aswell) I remember mentioning to Kayle once that mine didn't have the white sorta dots (Well i couldn't see them). I originally thought that they were Albino GBAz or somethanng. The story goes that if you crossed these towo ALBINO forms you get normals. In your case you have got normals and albinos.which may be possible if a couple of generations ago the same thang could have happened. Well here is a pic of my female that i had With Bristlenose, as with many other very frequently bred aquarium fish, it was only a matter of the time before the first mutations appear. In keeping with this trend, the first colour variation available was an albino. Presently we know two different albino bristlenose catfish forms, a purely yellowish form and a yellow with white form (as shown here). This further indicates that under the common banner of bristlenose catfish several similar Ancistrus species are involved. Anyone crossing these two albinos together is in for a nasty shock: all the offspring are normally coloured! Otherwise the albinos are just as easily bred as the wild form. quoted From: Ancistrinae Internet Lecture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Ahh awesome. Thanks for the info. They spawned again about 2 weeks ago and the same storey again about 1/3 of the babies being albino and the rest normal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I just think that they looked yellow...the ones that i had. Mybe the picture says a 1000 words. Try and keep them seperate if you can so that we have both types in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 If I understand what you have said correctly is that I have cross breed the two different types of ablinos together?? I am not home for around another week, but i'll have a look at my them to see which ones have the white spots on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 looking back at the pics that I posted. The female deffinately looks like she has the white spots and the male seems to have them as well so it may be that my other female doesn't have the spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 very interesting rcon, never seen the ones with out the whites before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 they are in New Zealand mate. Remember there were some on the list Called Yellow Ancistrus? I think they were those ones ay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 yeah i do remember "yellow ancistrus" on the list, thought they were just GBAz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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