Blue Ram Question

[penguinleo]

I got a pair of Blue Rams from Jansens and they were pretty much paired because they were guarding a corner of the tank and chasing other Rams away violently while not each other.

I got them home and I left them in a 38L tank.

The female is very cool. A dark pink belly. Nice broad body and I was told these were wild ones.

The male seemed to slightly peck at the female and the female did not mind to much. Could this be a breeding action? When the male wandered away she followed him and attracted him back a spot. And vice versa. At night, when I checked up on them, the female was in full colour and was shaking her body on the gravel. The male quite close by. Well, they are always next to each other. Can this be them spawning? The female looks very ready for eggs (brightly coloured and swimming eagerly) but the male is a bit stresed look by the colour of his body and less active than the female.

What could be the problem and could they still spawn? My p.h is around 6.2, nitrates 0, soft water, and temp. is around 27.

Help will be much appreciated! :bounce:

[antwan]

Shot man, sounds exactly like breeding behaviour to me, mine did the same. When they shake in the gravel, they'll be making a small pit to lay in. The male could be a little stressed because the female is possibly hassling him a bit. Can we see some pics of the fish? I didn't know we had wild rams in NZ, if I did I would have bought some

Good luck with them, and the fry

Oh, and if they're wilds, they'd probably be quite good and raise their fry themselves. Are you able to give them a bigger tank? 2 footer at least I'd say if you left them with parents (rams grow fast).

[penguinleo]

Hi Antwan.

Thanks. The guy who worked there at Jansens said they came in as wild ones. He wasn't an amateur by the looks of it and he was very into dwarf cichlids too. Seemed like a trust worthy guy. He might be bluffing, who knows but they did seem wild compared to the bred ones here in NZ in another tank. Sure then, I will try get some photos up asap.

I am glad that this is breeding behaviour. The male does kind of pick on the female but nothing serious and the female is chasing some fish away.

Unfortunately, I don't have a bigger tank at the moment as I am selling my small ones and medium ones on Trade me and I am going to get a larger tank with better lights, filter, underground heating and all the rest of it. Maybe then I will move the other fish to the larger tank and then keep the Rams in the 38 alone. Or will still be too small?

Thanks for your help :bounce:

[Alan]

By the sounds of it she is trying to get down to the substrate.

Get a flat piece of slate and just bury it in the area she is digging in.

When she finds that, the fun should begin.

Alan 104

[antwan]

I think she'd just be digging a pit, that's what mine did...never went down to the glass beneath the gravel, which wasn't very deep at all. A bigger tank is always better, rams can lay a lot of eggs (I counted approximately 300 with mine) so that means a lot of fry if they do the job right. So yea, a bigger tank if you can, you'd definitely need another one anyway if you're planning on keeping the babies.

Maybe Phil got some rams in or something with his amazon import? I suppose there's a high possibility he could've.

[penguinleo]

Since I can not get a big tank for the Rams now, how about getting a 300L + tank and putting them in there? There will be other fish but since the tank is bigger which means more space and less stress.

Maybe Phil did. Trying to get photos now.

I think there is too much fish in the tank for them to be able to successfully breed at the moment. Since I am selling my tanks and keeping some of the fish I have slightly crammed the tank. Too much disturbance I belive. But will the Rams start breeding again when they are moved to a better tank? Cheers for that guys. :bounce:

[antwan]

If the parents do spawn, just watch their behaviour, with the fish having not much space to swim away, they might kill them. Moving them to the bigger tank would be cool, and would most likely allow a few to survive to adulthood (would be the strongest ones too, which is good).

Yip, if the conditions are sweet I don't see any reason why they wouldn't start spawning again.

[penguinleo]

Yes, they are definitely spawning. Thanks for the advice to move them to a gravel sand bottom tank Antwan.

I moved all my other fish into a small bare bottom 38L tank. (Except for 4 Golden Black-Eyed Ancistrus) Shall I move them too? It may cause more stress to the Rams though. Will they do any damage? They are around 2-3cm. The tank the fish were moved to were really for my killifish to spawn in but Rams first! The Killis said they would not mind too much. It is funny though...the fish seem to enjoy the tank they got moved to than the one before. They are out more and look very happy indeed.

Here are some photos. They are very low quality since they were taken by a cheap video camera while zoomed making it worse. But please understand.. :lol: I don't want to disturb their little dancing around so I took photos far away. I will have more detail pictures soon.

See what I mean by the male looking quite dull coloured. The female is very very brightly coloured though. Hope they are successful.

My Agassizi Flamengo looks much happier. He did not use to come out so often and flash like that.

The female is continually exploring the tank, since the fish have gone. She has made 2 or 3 deep pits in the gravel and I believe she will lay very soon. More questions:

Shall I add some White spot cure to the tank when they have laid eggs?

Is it true that the eggs will only hatch if the pH is below 6? Mine is at around 6.5 at the moment.

Shall I leave a small light on at night near the tank so the female can see the Golden Black eyed ancistirus? Or should it be okay?

Shall I still perform water changes? Once a week? Or more?

Thanks for reading and comments will be appreciated! :bounce:

[antwan]

Great stuff! cool pictures too, looks like they're doing the deed 8)

I would try if you can to take the bns out, but only if it's not too much trouble.

Don't add white spot cure to the tank, that is only for artificially raising fry to stop the eggs from fungussing. They don't fungus when with the parents because they keep aerated water constantly flowing over the eggs.

The eggs will hatch above 6, I don't know who told you this, but they're wrong (mine were in about 6.4)

If you can, leave a small light quite far way, only just showing the eggs lightly (just enough for her to see something coming), but if you don't have one, don't worry about it (they don't have lights in the wild to stop predators, so they'll figure something out).

Try not to do a water change until the fry are free swimming, as you wouldn't really want them stressing from a change in water parameters (if this occurs during your water changes, not sure).

If you get your fry free swimming, just ask more questions then reguarding feeding, water changes, etc. and don't forget frequent updates with PICS

[penguinleo]

Oh I see. I thought you always needed to add some white spot cure in the tank. So if I do have eggs I will not add anything. Yea, I got that pH information off the net. This random guy did a survey and he found that when the pH was lower, more fry survuved or something like that. I guess they still do make it. And alrighty, I will try to take out the GBAs when they are reachable as you know, they are very fast and cling onto the hard to reach parts of the tank. :roll: Shall I still keep the light on after removing the GBAs or is this just when the GBAs are in the tank? Many big thanks Antwan and any other members helping will be appreciated. :bounce: I will keep you updated asap and with PICS

[Alan]

The reason that you don't get fungused eggs with parental care, is that the mum will know as the eggs aren't fertile, and she'll pick them out from the brood and dispose of them by eating them.

Later, as the tails break free of the eggs, she'll suck them out of the egg shell and take them to a prepared pit.

Alan 104

[penguinleo]

Thanks Alan. I'm slowly taking out my GBAs now. I woke up in the morning and remove 3 of them. It was easy as they were all clung to the glass and they seemed less alert. One to go. No eggs yet but still burrying about.

[meesheelly]

aww no fair

I had 2 boys so i got 6 more babies and it looks like they are all boys as well!

Good luck! they are such cool little fishes.

[penguinleo]

hehe. Thanks meesheelly, and good luck to you too.

[penguinleo]

Here is an update but unfortunately no relevent pics yet.

My female ram has stopped digging around in the gravel. Just guesing here but I think she may have laid eggs but ate them as soon as she laid them. Don't know just an idea because the female has become a tiny bit thinner than before. She isn't starving or anything though. Or possible when I removed the other fish it could have stressed her because it was quite a rummage to get the fish out although I was as careful as possible.

The male is now much more active, swimming around everywhere. However he is still dull in colour but does not look stressed by looking at his actions and behaviour. He continually chases the female around the place. Well actually...now he lashes out at the female ram trying to peck her. Almost like he is bullying her. She runs away everytime he does that but she doesn't seem to turn pale. Usually fish, when chased around or bullyed turn whitish. That doesn't happen. The female's intense colours remain.

I don't really know what is happening around here now. It is all confusing.. :-? Can people give me some help and/or advices on what may be happening? Thank you!

[antwan]

Is her ovipositor sticking out? If it is that would be a good sign to say they've spawned. The skininess is also a good sign too. It is quite likey that she ate the eggs since it was her first spawn (quite possibly). The male would be hassling her for doing this and chasing her around because of it. Keep feeding them on live and frozen foods and they should spawn again in 1-2 weeks, keeping them full should also hopefully prevent them from eating their spawn.

[penguinleo]

Ovipositor? What is this? :lol: Yes, she is a bit skinny now. Okay, I will feed them bloodworms daily and keep them happy and full. I will report back again soon. Thanks for that Antwan

[Alan]

It's a thingie that sticks out to aid the placement of her eggs.

The boys have a similar appendage, but a slightly different shape.

This is used for going over the deposited eggs and spraying them with milt, and sometimes this can be seen as a cloudy, milky substance, as it is deposited.

With goldfish at a heated spawning, it appears as if milk has been tipped into the pond.

Alan 104

[penguinleo]

Oh I see...but where on the fish is it found? And if they have laid eggs should it be sticking out? Cheers for that Alan

[penguinleo]

And I will try to get a better quality picture on here today.

[antwan]

The ovipositor is the fishes private parts :lol: have a look where they should be It will remain "out" for a short while after they spawn, then it goes back in where it came from

[penguinleo]

I see.. :lol: Well, there seems to be a tiny clear whitish thingy sticking out very slightly. And I also got another paired pair of blue rams and they are in another tank and are about to spawn. But these pairs are interesting because the male has very long fins. I heard that this happens when the parents or even maybe further up the generation, a male or female blue ram bred with a gold ram. So it is kind of like a long fin gene in the ram. My male is basically a lyretail blue ram. I will try get some photos of him and the female too. Just a bit busy now days. And have a MERRY CHRISTMAS to everyone reading this! :bounce: :bounce: