UV Questions Answered

[JDM]

sorry putt putt, i edited that after you posted.

(please dont be fooled by the date that i joined this site, i joined RC first, and just read this site from time to time.)

[Fay]

looks like the genral opnion is uv may help my problem, i will still be going down the denitrator and po4 fluidised reactor road (as i allready own the po4 one and the nitrate one will be here soon)

i think rather than add a hole lot of things at once and not be able to tell what changes each item made, i will add the po4 reactor tonight, i will add the denitrator in 2 weeks when it arrives and then look closer into getting a uv after i have seen the results the other 2 have made.

this way i will be able to confidentaly say how each item has arrfected/improved my tank.

WAY TO GO!!

[puttputt]

I have had my tank running for 2 years, I have seen tanks that are younger than my setup and they don’t have nutrient problems.

I have heard that the last cycle for nitrate can take longer than 6 months to establish, but I think 2 years should be enough. Lots of factors involved im sure, but still more maturing to go? :-?

good point JDM, bit of a puzzle??

and I know what you mean, been called a newbie by others just because i only posted in this forum in the last year or 2. Been doing marine tanks sice i was still at high school, 20 odd :oops: + years ago.

[Bubbles]

20 odd :oops: + years ago.

But you look so young in person Now about those frags :oops:

[wasp]

Yes I was VERY impressed with Puttputts tank, And the man himself, when I paid a visit. Been doing it for years, including a huge cold water setup with snapper and many other local fish, plus cold water anemones etc.

A wealth of experience & a practicle realistic guy.

Funny to see a relative newby wannabe scientist telling him where he is going wrong! End of the day the man who gets the results gets my vote.

[JDM]

From the pictures I have seen puttputts tank speaks for itself (as with some others) 20+ years will have seen some massive changes in this hobby, can’t wait till I have that sort of experience and knowledge.

a cold water set up, now that ive got to see, might have to make time to come up for a tank crawl, put some faces to names.....

I do still consider myself a newbie in a way, especially when there are people on here that have managed to get through the tuff times in this hobby and carry on to create the stunning tanks they have today. I also believe I have much to learn, seems just when I think ive got my tank sorted I find something else to learn about and correct a problem with the knowledge I gain.

[lduncan]

Don't make assumptions about me or other people on this site Layton. I spend alot of time researching all aspects of this hobby, and attribute my success to this. I take full responsibility for for my personal learning, and the fact I post on this forum, alot less that alot, no way hinders this.

What assumptions did i make? You keep asking me to prove stuff to you. I suggested that it's more valuable for you to prove or disprove it to yourself. How is that making an assumption?

The only evidance you posted was some obscure quote from a drinking water study, and this is your scientific research?.

Nope, not in it's entirety. That was the result of 5 min spent google searching. There is far more specific research out there on UV in marine environments, which specifically looks at what happens to bacterial populations within sediments and rock, and the corresponding effects on N and P levels.

waste of time discussing this with you as you have a real problem communicating without trying to belittle, or insult people.

How am I insulting or belittling people?

Wasps last post just threw this thread into those depths. These threads often end this way when others can't dispute things using real information... they resort to personal attacks and character judgements to make their decisions, and justify their opinion.

Which is why I think twice about post here in recent times. I know from the PM's and email I get that people get a lot out of these threads, but a few seem to want to derail them by dragging them down to irrelevant personal judgments on others.

I don't care if you disagree with me. Just make sure you base it on a valid reason.

Layton

[puttputt]

How am I insulting or belittling people?

and just plain ignorance

That's what you call sheep mentality

Ignorance (lack of knowledge) is the correct adjective for this

Maybe it was just over your head?

No, when i'm done trying to explain things to people who don't make sense

Some people had enough trouble getting to grips with the skimmer workings

I had enough trouble getting across the skimmer model to some people. The sand one will confuse the hell out of some people.

It's going to be too hard and time consuming for me to explain this to some people, and to be honest, I really don't have the necessary patience to do it.

These are the facts Layton, you put up a theory that a UV on a marine system will lower nitrates. Others disagreed e.g.

Uv will not reduce nitrates. How high are they?

If you have high nitrates then do big water changes weekly

you reply is that we should prove it ourselves.

and your asking me to base it on a valid reason???

[JDM]

[lduncan]

and your asking me to base it on a valid reason???

Yeah. Give me a valid reason why you think the reasons I have put forward are wrong? So far you haven't been able to do that.

[puttputt]

The reason, and a valid one, that I don't accept your theory is that you have offered no proof.

Again, why come up with a statement, agrue that it is a fact and then fail to offer ANY proof.

[lduncan]

The reason, and a valid one, that I don't accept your theory is that you have offered no proof.

That's not a valid reason. The fact that i haven't offered proof on a platter has no relation to whether what i've said is correct or not. For example, i'm completely ignorant of the proof behind how say quarks do there thing. Just because someone won't supply me with proof, it doesn't give me a valid reason to dispute claims they make relating to it.

Again, why come up with a statement, agrue that it is a fact and then fail to offer ANY proof.

Because it's useful information. How would you like to be harassed to provide proof for every statement you make?

You should be asking yourself why you are arguing here in this thread when you don't have any valid reasons to support either side of the discussion.

Layton

[puttputt]

ok, you win layton Congratulations. Give yourself a pat of the head.

You've come up with a statement that may or maybe fact, failed to say why you consider it to be so, failed to offer any valid reason or evidence and proved that I haven't got a valid reason for questioning you and proved once again you are always right.

Got to go, rushing out to buy a Deltec UV to lower my Nitrates, even though it probably wont.

[lduncan]

failed to say why you consider it to be so, failed to offer any valid reason or evidence

I have said why I considered it to be so, I have provided a valid reason, and I have provided evidence.

The only thing I haven't provided is proof.

You haven't done any of those things. Which makes half of this thread more or less useless.

Layton

[puttputt]

just because you say so is not a valid reason, just because you say so is not valid evidence.

you, thats right Layton, you started a thread based on your assumption. As a passionate reef keeper and keen member of this board i questioned your evidence and what facts you have based this assumption on.

I didn't consider that pointless. Your attempts to discredit me from then on have been useless yes.

if i started a thread, a public thread on this board stating that a piece of equipment suddenly dropped my nutrients, and claimed that it is now an indispensible piece of equipment and even stated which brands people should buy, I would expect people to question me, ask what proof i had, etc.

I certainly wouldn't blame people for questioning me, tell them that they should look for there own proof, and then rubbish there contribution.

the title of this thread is UV questions answered, how ironic.

[lduncan]

just because you say so is not a valid reason, just because you say so is not valid evidence.

No, you're right, it's not. But that's not what i've done here. Instead i've said that there is scientific research which corroborates this, and said what they found, and how it worked, I also provided anecdotal evidence which supported it.

you, thats right Layton, you started a thread based on your assumption. As a passionate reef keeper and keen member of this board i questioned your evidence and what facts you have based this assumption on.

What was the assumption? I didn't start this thread with any assumptios.

I didn't consider that pointless. Your attempts to discredit me from then on have been useless yes.

Discredit you? All i've asked for from you is to provide some sort of logical reason why you disagree with what i've posted.

if i started a thread, a public thread on this board stating that a piece of equipment suddenly dropped my nutrients, and claimed that it is now an indispensible piece of equipment

I said indespensible as far as i'm concerned. I'll let others judge whether that's the case for them.

and even stated which brands people should buy, I would expect people to question me, ask what proof i had, etc.

Why should i provide proof to people. I've said what it dose, and how it does it according to the research I found. If you want to confirm or deny that in you're own mind, i'm not stopping you.

I certainly wouldn't blame people for questioning me, tell them that they should look for there own proof, and then rubbish there contribution.

All you've done is ask for proof. I said it's there for you to find. Rubbished your contributions? No, I've just told you why I don't agree with them.

Coming up with some real reasons why you disagree with the statements, and reasoning i've provided would make this thread a lot more useful. Saying you just don't believe me is not useful. You must have a reason why you don't believe it. If you don't, then what are you wasting time for posting replies here?

Layton

[wasp]

How am I insulting or belittling people?

and just plain ignorance

That's what you call sheep mentality

Ignorance (lack of knowledge) is the correct adjective for this

Maybe it was just over your head?

No, when i'm done trying to explain things to people who don't make sense

Some people had enough trouble getting to grips with the skimmer workings

I had enough trouble getting across the skimmer model to some people. The sand one will confuse the hell out of some people.

It's going to be too hard and time consuming for me to explain this to some people, and to be honest, I really don't have the necessary patience to do it.

Wow! So much anger!

[puttputt]

Layton, it's not that I don't believe you, in fact i'd like to believe you. An additional way to control nitrate or phosphate would be a bonus.

If you could be reasonable, and offer facts or sound reasoning to back up your conclusion, i could then consider these, and if i agreed with you I'd go a buy a UV, without hesitation. Unfortunately you are not being reasonable.

As per my last post, edited to late as you had posted, the title of the thread is UV questions answered. All I did was ask some questions?

[lduncan]

If you could be reasonable, and offer facts or sound reasoning to back up your conclusion,

I've been reasonable, i've provided all the facts and reasoning in those threads link in the first post. The only thing I haven't done is provided the proof on a platter.

As per my last post, edited to late as you had posted, the title of the thread is UV questions answered. All I did was ask some questions?

Yeah, and when I provided some honest answers to those questions, you claimed that I was insulting and belittling people. I was just providing some honest possible answers to direct questions you asked.

Layton

[puttputt]

I like the idea of a UV on my next setup. (for a number of reasons ). I'll PM you.

[petplanet]

I am totally sold on them.

Tank 1 - added powder blue, all tangs stressed - added UV everyone happy - 3 plus weeks clear.

Tank 2 - Noticed purple tang covered in white spot and hiding, a few on the big angel, transferred UV, did 25% water change (hadn't done one for 2 plus months, heaps of power cuts), 3 days later all clear, purple tang happy as Larrie. Skimmer output has increased.

I am to lazy to run and change carbon. I can probably manage to change a bulb now and again.

The ocean has a massive surface area relative to depth, huge water motion and a massive UV unit above it. The skimmer is not so large.

[wasp]

I am totally sold on them.

Tank 1 - added powder blue, all tangs stressed - added UV everyone happy - 3 plus weeks clear.

Tank 2 - Noticed purple tang covered in white spot and hiding, a few on the big angel, transferred UV, did 25% water change (hadn't done one for 2 plus months, heaps of power cuts), 3 days later all clear, purple tang happy as Larrie.

Sounds like exactly the same argument as used to support garlic!

Not wanting to start anything though

It was a joke. JOKE? :lol:

[Pies]

This thread is silly.

I added a Poweder Blue tang. All fish happy. I think its because my tank is in a Rimu cabinet. I suggest everyone uses a Rimu cabinet, it works for me, also the oil used to keep it in good order helps with coral colour.

I loved Laytons comments about Bob Fenner too. Layton the expert. Bob Fenners information is 30 years old. Yet when someone like Bomber has an idea its 30 years of experance. hahaha.

You can have stunning coral growth and colour without UV, of this there is no doubt. Why bother with the expense.

Someone made a comment about its a bargin if its only $20 a month? Spending $20 a month on something that is useless and unessessary doesn't sound like a bargin to me, better off using the money to sponsor a child.

[lduncan]

We have a winner. Most ignorant post of the year!

RTFT

[reef]

some uv info

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizuvs.htm

What Is It, and How Are UV Sterilizers Used?

What exactly is UV sterilization? It's actually a very simple process for removing (referred to as filtering) unwanted free floating microscopic water borne bacteria, parasitic, fungal, viral, algae, and other unfriendly pathogens out of aquarium water by exposing it to high intensity ultra-violet (UV) light. UV light has the ability to effect the function of living cells by altering the structure of the cells nuclear material, or DNA. The end result is the organisms die off, eradicating your aquarium water of these unwanted nuisances.

There are three types of UV sterilizers; tray type, tube type-wet bulb (non-quartz lined), and tube type-dry bulb (quartz lined).

Suggested wattages are 4-8 watts for 20-40 gallon aquariums, 20-25 watts for 50-100 gallons, and 40 watts for larger aquariums. Using this method of treating water is quite controversial amongst aquarists. Some consider it to be a waste of money, not all that effective, or suitable for fish-only, but unnatural for reef tanks, while others feel it does have its benefits for either type of system.

The general consensus is that an aquarist that has a well maintained and uncrowded aquarium, as well as follows good quarantine procedures when introducing new specimens to their system, a UV light filter is not necessary. For those that may be deciding on whether a UV light filter should be added or not, here are some other points to consider.

• Most effective when run 24/7.

• Most effective if the water is clear.

• Most effective if bulb is new, or replaced regularly (at least every 6-8 months).

• Most effective if the UV light penetrates less than one inch of water.

• Effectiveness can be hindered if the water passes to fast past the bulb. Most effective if the exposure time of the water to the UV light is longer than one second.

• The effectiveness of UV light can be hindered if there is light blockage, i.e. a salt encrusted bulb.

• It can help to prevent future water borne pathogen reoccurrences, once the initial problem as been completely eradicated from the aquarium.

• UV light not only kills unwanted organisms, but beneficial ones as well.

• Because it can destroy beneficial microscopic organisms that some reef tank inhabitants may depend on as a food source, UV light should not be run during feeding time.

• It only destroys organisms that are free floating IN the water as it passed by the UV light, i.e. it will NOT get rid of an ich infestation that is already ON fish, or cure a bacterial disease fish may have.

• Should never be run when treating with any drugs or medications.

• UV can also alter the structure of some dissolved chemical compounds.

• UV light can be damaging to the human eye, so DO NOT look into the bulb.

• Always unplug the unit when working on it to prevent possible shock if it breaks or gets wet.