quack Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 hey all well ive started my new project already and looking for some advice ive made a 250l tank (1mx0.5x0.5) and have brought a nice rimu stand for it. my plans for this tank is to setup my first proper planted tank. im thinking of using a 250w metal halide light with a sodastream co2 setup. im not to sure on fish choice for this tank but was thinking of maybe 2 discus and some cardinals or something. im open to suggestions on this as im not to sure on good fish for a planted tank. next is filtration, i was thinking a 1000lph canister?? what do other people use for their planted tanks? is there any advantage in using under tank heating?? or would a normal heater do the trick? what kind of substrate should i use? i was thinking of some kind of clay under the gravel or something? is there any good brands out there that dont cost to much? now for the most important part: plants. i like swords and ferns but not sure of what else is available? has anyone got any good pics of their planted tanks or pics of plants to get some ideas? also im not to sure on how to make the sodastream co2 setup. from what i gather its just a bottle with a regulator on top going to a diffuser?? am i right? what kind to regulator do i need? thanks for any help!! (heres some pics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 if buying two discus for a planted tank make sure they are a friendly pair (dont have to be a mated pair but make good friends will help you) and make sure they are largish- i reccomend over 8cm. discus are cichlids and do show aggression, with only two that arent best buddies one may become the dominant one and the other will take a bit of a beating as theres noone else to pick on. when i had four discus this still happened. theres nothing worse than seeing one of your discus start withering away and becoming a hermit cause hes getting bullied. try to buy the largest discus you can afford, raising discus is very hard work (water changes) and there seems to be an art to it :lol: larger ones are more resistant to problems and then if they do slow in growth you wont be left with colourless pans :lol: i would also reccomend adding your discus once the tank is nice and settled so everything is in balance and your not having to do water changes every 1-3 days for them to keep the water clean. cardinals will be great in a discus tank, cories, bristlenose, ottos, hatchets, rummies (and most other tetras bar neons, they cant handle higher temps) will all be good tank mates. the main problem is fish that can handle the high heat (and i beleive some plants run into that problem too?). i have aquatic mix under my substrate and its really good for the plants that are heavy root feeders, the only problem with it is i have a bristlenose that likes to dig :lol: i paid $3 per 5kg bag at my LFS. there are so many plants to choose from its hard to pick isnt it? i quite like the lotus as its a change from your average green plant. vallis makes a nice space filler too. with MH you could probably do some carpeting with glosso, hair grass, chain sword etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Hi Your tank is the same litreage as my planted tank. I have a 1200lph canister filter on it which is good, i would reccomend one of them. Co2, i would reccomend getting a proper pressurized system, as it is WAY better, but money is the problem... I have a sodastream setup on my tank now, but would love a god setup in the future. You need to buy the regulator from 'toolsonline' on trademe for $75.90 or something around that, then you need the bottle. I reccomend getting the big sodastream bottle from somewhere as they last much longer. Then you need a needle valve which can be found at hobby stores or similiar i think. Then you need a diffuser/reactor. I use the diffuser out of a nutrafin co2 kit on my tank because i had the nutrafin going before i went sodastream.. 250 MH would be awesome on that tank, BUT, IMO you will need a high co2 rate so the algae doesnt outgrow the plants, so the sodastream bottles wont last you very long. I only have a 76W double tuber on my tank ATM and i am getting pretty awesome growth, I am going to get another double tuber soon though. I originally was gunna use a 150W MH, but because i couldnt find any suitable bulbs, and the spread of the light meant i needed a double tuber on it anyways, i decided to not use it after all. If you could get a 150W halide over that tank it would be pretty good i would imagine... I dont use undertank heating, but it does keep the soil from getting anaerobic. If you dont use it (which is the easier way and most cost effective) all you need to do is 'fork' the sand every now and again the turn it over. The areas around plants will be fine though because the roots move it around a bit, therefore meaning that if the whole tank is covered with plants, it will be sweeet as. This is what im trying to get too ATM Mighta missed something but i gotta go to work, will check in later Rogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quack Posted November 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 hey thanks for all the help. what is the difference between the sodastream setup and the pressurised setup?? i just went to one of the local garden shops and they sell aquatic mix for $20 of 20kgs for im going to go with this i think, they said it was pretty much clay. how thick should this layer be and then how think should the normal substrate be? is there a recipe for a homemade fert mix?? i would search but it dont work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Hi A 'proper' co2 system would be a bigger bottle, a regulator with gauges so you know pressures of the bottle and the co2 going out, a solenoid to turn the co2 off at night times, a needle valve and a good diffuser. This IMO is a 'proper' co2 system. As for ferts, you should probably join up at aqautic plant central And have a read there, about the EI dosing method. In short it is the estimative index dosing method, you dose a certain amount each week, then do a 50% water change. If you read lots, you will eventualy figure different things out, and will in the future be able to make your own/use PMDD (poor mans dupla drops) As for fish, In my 250L planted tank i have: 2 angels (soon to be gone) 2 big Bristlenose and about 40 smaller BN ranging from 1cm to 4cm 3 Bronze corys (although i would like more) 5 pygmy corys (never see them) 3 Harlequins (probly will get rid of them soon aswell) 5 golden pencil fish 2 Keyhole cichlids (male and female) and 2 kribensis (m and f) This is quite a good stocking level, though i am thinking of getting rid of some and keep less kinds but more of each kind as i think its better. I would like to have: 10 golden pencils 10-15 cardinals A few BN 5 or so otocinclus 10 of one kind of cory (bronze or sterbai or something) 2-4 Keyholes The keyholes being the feature fish (i love my keyholes ) As for substrates. I have an aquatic mix layer of about 1-3 cm in differnt places, then a layer of sand around 1-2 cm thick. I have it scaped so that there is a thick place at the back corner for heavy rooted plants, then normal in the middle, then a thin layer in one of the front corners, with prety much no aquatic mix, which is just empty ATM but the tennelus os starting to spread into it and fill in.... now for the most important part: plants. i like swords and ferns but not sure of what else is available? has anyone got any good pics of their planted tanks or pics of plants to get some ideas? I will give you a list of what i have in my tank, and may get some pics later if the camera is here... I have: Hairgrass (a lawn at the front middle) Tennelus (trying to get a lawn at the front sides) Tiger lotus (feature plant right in the middle of the tank) About 4 differnt kinds of crypt (throughout the tank, one in the back corner, some toward the middle/front etc) A large marbled sword (feature plant to the side) A small rose sword in front of the Amazon (growing up) A small leapord sword Stargrass, rotala macranda, another type of rotala from caryl and rotala walichii (all together across the back/side of the tank as the backdrop) A couple tiger lotus bulbs i got given recently that im hoping are red lotus, but will find out soon once the leaves open out... Twisted val (a little bit just in behind the lotus as a back drop) a couple small amazon swords And a bit of anubius thats all i can remember off the top of my head but no doubt i have missed something. There are quite a few swords in the tank, but most are only small ATM, Im only going to keep two max in there once they get bigger, and the others can go into my geo tank (probably the amazons) and anything else i will just give away or something... And back to the metal halides, i didnt quite explain myself much. I was going to use the 150W halide, but because my tank is 1200 long, the light only covered part of it, making the ends alot darker, so i needed to keep my double tuber on it anyways. The double tuber takes up half the top of the tank though (tank is only 400 wide) So the halide wouldnt of covered alot of the tank. I realised that having the halide wasnt going to be very economical, and with just another double tuber, i can get the same wattage of light anyways... Since your tank is only 1000 long, i reckon you could just squeeze a 150W halide on there. Antwan has a 900 long tank with a 150W halide and its is awesome. I personally wouldnt go with the 250W unless you are going to have a co2 bubble rate of at least 1-2 bubbles per second (meaning that a normal sodastream bottle will run out in 1-2 weeks....) Man im blabbering on arent i!!! HTH Rogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 you are on a roll there mate..keep going!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well as far as lighting goes if your starting from scratch, i would seriously consider T5's, and dont automatically discount T8's either. For a planted tank the range of kelvins available in both T5 and T8 is good, replacement bulbs are cheaper, and at 500mm Deep ( less when you add substrate) i think a decent 'bank' of tubes could be the way to go, Unless you are looking for the trendy look with a suspended MH? Just a bit more for you to think about ... I still havent decided on lighting for my 5ftx2x2 project( looooong term project :lol: ), been thinking along the lines of 3x 150W MH, and a couple of 54W t5's... all on timers of course and probably not all on at the same time!!! Look at some of the photoperiods that the guys with salt water tanks run for some inspiration Good Luck John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwan Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Yea, you could prob just fit a 150W halide on top, but my plants on the side of my 900 long tank bend in towards the center. If you wanna get the BEST lighting, go for two 75W halides. If you can't be bothered with the expense, just go for fluoro's. I wouldn't really recommend the 250W'er cos it'd be too intense in the middle, then leave a few noticable dark patches at the ends of your tank. Rogan has explained everything else really well, so good luck with your tank Quack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwan Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Diverjohn makes a good point, I forgot about T5's, they're a bit brighter than T8's, but I think a bit more expensive too. I have seen great planted tanks with T5's, T8's and MH, it's really just up to you what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Yea t5's are another thought, but for the expense over normal t8's and the extra wattage, I think its probably just best to go with 4-5 tubes. The tank being only 1000 long means that you will need to use 3 foot tubes im guessing, therefore they will only be about 25-30 watts each. the 4 foot tubes are 36 W which is good. Being such a wide tank (500mm) i reckon you could put 5-6 900mm T8 tubes accross it, which would give you some AWESOME light. I reckon for this certain tank, tubes would be the way to go, over MH, unless like ant said, you have 2 70W halides... Tubes are cheap as chips too, my 4 foot tubes, 6500 Kelvin, cost $7 each, so they can be replaced often and still hardly cost anything... Whereas a 150W MH bulb will be $80-$100 every year or so, as long as you can find the things!!! Heres a fewq quick pics. The stargrass, rotala macranda, rotala walichii etc in the back left corner looks like crap because the tank just go over a HUGE green water phase, so i couldnt see them to trim them back to stop the bottoms from dieing off.... This is the tank overall from an angle with the flash This is the tank right with the flash This is my regulator on the sodastream bottle. you can see the needle valve on the airline... The tank has heaps of filling in to do yet. The hairgrass needs to sort itself out, the tennelus needs to spread more. Ther stargrass etc needs to grow back (i gave it a huge trim (thats what is floating at the top) so i can send it away on saturday to jude) The tiger lotus has produced 4 babys already, 2 off which are still in the tank (the two i am sending to timtam22 on saturday) the other two have been given away. The left hand side is very cluttered, so i will be removing alot of the plants from there sometime in the future, so if you have your tank going by then, i could send you some if you like.... Hope these pics give you some ideas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quack Posted November 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 has anyone had any experiance with a co2 plug in unit. like an air pump but co2? i was given a price for one and was only about $50. sounds a bit cheap for what it is tho?? thanks for all the info not sure on what im going to do yet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 What info do you have on these units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quack Posted November 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 um at this stage prety much nothing :oops: its just ment to plug into the wall and look like a air pump and air stone and have a flow control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Things like that are bulls**t. Dont even touch the things, waste of money and time man. Just get a sodastream unit or go all out and buy a 'proper' unit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quack Posted November 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 yeah at this stage i think im going to stick with a sodastream setup. the plug in generater seems to be a bit cheap for what it does. a few questions about fish.. i thought that the corys would be a bad choice because of them digging around the roots of the plants? what would rams or they ok with plants?? also what kind of kelvin rating should i get. the MH that i wanted came with a 14k will that grow the plants or would i be better trying to find something around the 6500k? oh and with the substrate woud it be a good idea to mix some peat into it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 I have corys in my tank and they keep the top layer of sand turning over, keeping it from going 'off'. I reccomend keeping at least a few, as they clean up all the little bits of crap on the bottom aswell... Mine have never uprooted any plants so i think they will be sweet... Kelvin ratings for a planted tank should be around 6500K but plants look better and more natural with 8000K i believe. 14000K will look very blue and wont look good at all, those bulbs are more suited for marine tanks... i doubt that plants would even grow under that light...? I personaly wouldnt mix some peat into it as it will drop your ph/kh and may cause problems, but a little bit underneath the substrate may not be too bad..?? Yea go with sodastream. I dont see how a 'plug in generator' can make co2, its not possible surely!! Those things are absolute lies!!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 rams are great discus tank mates as long as they are healthy! try to get off a breeder as many store bought rams are from asia where they are mass bred and riddled with ickies which you wouldnt want to pass onto your discus or other fish. cories are great little fellows, a good choice when it comes to planted tanks cause they can get into all the little spots the big fish cant get to (to eat up leftovers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Just following up on evils post about tube lenghts... One particular advantage of t5's is, they are all about 50mm shorter than their t8 cousins. While Evil is spot on about probaly having to go 30W ( or 3 ft tubes) on a 1200 long tank because 36W (4ft) tubes wont easily fit, especially if you have a hood! If you went to the t5 equvilent of a 4ft, its 1149 mm long, and is 54 Watts! Hope that helps. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 If you went to the t5 equvilent of a 4ft, its 1149 mm long, and is 54 Watts! Whoa, so where would i source the parts needed to setup a t5 unit over my tank? 54W is alot more than 36 isnt it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 i have trouble fitting t5 fittings but the tubes :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quack Posted November 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 will this do the trick?? how long would this last between refills? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... d=77295907 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quack Posted December 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 just about got everything i need now got my new filter rena xp3, new co2 setup: 5kg bottle, BOC regulator, needle valve, co2 tubing and glass diffuser. im waiting for my light to arive should of been here today :evil: hopefuly tomoro, but thats a 250w MH with a 5500k bulb. if i have any problems wth the MH not reaching the sides of the tank then i will add some fluros to the setup. also got a 15l bag of doltons aquatic mix and a heap of dark coloured sand for on top. just need to get some heating now, going to price up some undertank heating i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Sweet. Tank should come together awesomely having a good co2 system and 250W halide. Just keep the bubble rate on the co2 around the 1 bubble per second mark and see what thats like. You will probably have to up that once the plants realy get going with that halide though. Keep us updated, and dont forget the pics!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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