JoeBlog Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I run a Deltec 40W and a Pentair Aquatics Lifegard 40W on my 500L. I don’t think that the Deltec is working though due to broken bulb (too busy to check and not obvious because of the way it is plumbed), but the Lifegard has a new bulb in it and is working great. The output of the skimmer did increase dramatically upon installing them (only anecdotal evidence, but some evidence at any rate). I’m very happy with mine and will probably upgrade (add more 40 watt units) upon moving to the bigger system. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossco Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Since UV units kill bacteria passing through them would they defeat the purpose of trying to cultivate 'good' bacteria through practices like adding vodka and bacteria cultures? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Doesn't a skimmer defeat the purpose of trying to cultivate 'good' bacteria through practices like adding vodka and bacterial cultures? Why do you want all that bacteria in the system? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Why do you want all that bacteria in the system? Layton So they can eat crap, then get skimmed out of the system along with a gutfull of crap to remove it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 ... so you don't want them in your tank, you want them in the skimmer. and UV helps with that. A skimmer will skim UV maimed bacteria as well as it does non-zapped bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 ... so you don't want them in your tank, you want them in the skimmer. and UV helps with that. A skimmer will skim UV maimed bacteria as well as it does non-zapped bacteria so the non-UV-maimed / non-zapped bacteria are smart enough to avoid the skimmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 no, that's kinda the point. UV / no UV the skimmer still removes them. So what does it matter if the skimmers skimming maimed bacteria or live bacteria. Since UV units kill bacteria passing through them would they defeat the purpose of trying to cultivate 'good' bacteria through practices like adding vodka and bacteria cultures? It doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 i see this thread going nowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 i see this thread going nowhere I don't know why you would say that. I personally think that the input has been useful. Layton and I have already had this talk, so I'm familiar with his answers. But when I was curious about starting up UV, these are the same questions that I had. And, I was happy to have them answered or at least discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 This is a common question / misconception about UV: Since UV units kill bacteria passing through them would they defeat the purpose of trying to cultivate 'good' bacteria through practices like adding vodka and bacteria cultures? In fact, using UV often increases total bacterial populations, by providing a more available food sources. And it does this without adding to the total pool of DOM (unlike systems such as zeovit). It takes existing large organic molecules and splits them which often results in molecules which are easier for bacteria to use. So who cares if you maim a few in the process, they need to be skimmed anyway, dead, maimed or alive. That's pretty much my point. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 probably badly worded, see saw effect?? I am learning so thats all good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I am lost :-? So who cares if you maim a few in the process, they need to be skimmed anyway, dead, maimed or alive reminds me of a movie i once saw 8) In fact, using UV often increases total bacterial populations, by providing a more available food sources excuse my ignorance but how does this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stompa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I am lost i am to and i was the silly idiot that started this thread...... think ill head back to the corner :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 i am to and i was the silly idiot that started this thread...... think ill head back to the corner :oops: Youll have to fight to get into it i warn you now, i cant remember how many people have been summoned to the corner :lol: Jokes aside, i am learning (well trying at least) from this thread as i have just started my first ever marine tank... Dont think i will be needing a Uv unit on my tank thought, being only 60 Litres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Layton, would you be able to explain the theory behind UV helping bacteria production please? or maybe a link to a site that we can read to learn how this occurs. I'm interested in the way this may help to reduce my nitrate's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 UV does kill off free floating bacteria that is exposed to UV, However, the percentage of total bacteria that is killed off by your UV is minimal . Uv will not reduce nitrates. How high are they? If you have high nitrates then do big water changes weekly. I also have problems keeping my nitrates down and found that the suphur nitrate filter was in only thing that could keep it below 1ppm. However i found that keeping my nitrates too low was also causing problem with some corals. i aim for below 5ppm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 i have been doing 10% water changes every week for ages. my nitrate level is slowly dropping but still over 25 (was over 50!), so still way too high. 5 would be heaven! what size water change would you recommend for bringing the nitrate down? and i am not afraid of having to do a water change every night for a while so would rather do lots of smaller ones the a few huge ones, if that will work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 dood, u must feed to much? If u do a 50% waterchange your nitrates will only be halved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 just change 50%. should drop the nitrate. you will have to heat the water to about the same as the tank. then do another 50% a week on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 i will do a 50% change this weekend then another one next weekend. i think i might be best getting a bigger skimmer to keep the nitrate down, im not overly happy with my skimmer, it seemed to work better when i first got it compared to now and i cant see any reason why, i have checked the pump and fitted the new bushes, i have checked the air line, changed settings and still think its only working to 50%. will a bigger skimmer control the nitrates once i have them down with the water changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 excuse my ignorance but how does this work? Layton, would you be able to explain the theory behind UV helping bacteria production please? I though I explained it in general terms? This was the mechanism presented in the paper I found a while back: In fact, using UV often increases total bacterial populations, by providing a more available food sources. And it does this without adding to the total pool of DOM (unlike systems such as zeovit). It takes existing large organic molecules and splits them which often results in molecules which are easier for bacteria to use. Knowing that amount of bacteria in a cycled tank is not constrained by reproductive limits, but by food limits. I'm tying to find a link to the study, but it was hard to find then, and proving hard to find now! Most of what you find is how bacteria directly exposed to UV are mutated, they ignore what happens to bacteria in other parts of the system which are not directly exposed to the UV radiation, but are exposed to the other effects of UV (mostly the molecules created by the UV splitting C=C bonds in large organics). The study I found looked at both, and specifically similar denitrifying bacteria species. It pretty much corresponds to what I saw in the first couple of weeks after turning on the UV. Makes sense really. Does a better job than carbon. Doesn't release phosphate like carbon. Boosts skimmer output. Reduces large (often toxic) organics. Turns these into food which is easier for bacteria to use. Leads to more bacterial export (depending on tank setup) Only downside? Maybe the maintenance every 6 moths or so? Other than that, from my point of view it's all positives. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 think i might be best getting a bigger skimmer to keep the nitrate down, im not overly happy with my skimmer, it seemed to work better when i first got it compared to now and i cant see any reason why, i have checked the pump and fitted the new bushes, i have checked the air line, changed settings and still think its only working to 50%. will a bigger skimmer control the nitrates once i have them down with the water changes? I think you tank is cleaner now so the skimmer will be taking out less. skimmers will always take out lots when you start them and a few months on will take out less as there is less to remove. A bigger skimmer will help to a degree however will not solve the problem. i over skim more than anybody else and i still find it hard to keep the nitrates down. skimmer dont remove all organics. reduce feeding, dont feed frozen foods will help. if still finding it hard try a sulphur nitrate reactor. keep doing the water change. maybe 10% every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 JDM wrote I'm interested in the way this may help to reduce my nitrate's What skimmer are you running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 im running a deltec 1250, good skimmer really, i think reef is right that the tank is cleaner, just looking now my rocks are looking cleaner and not as dark as the have been. i just love upgrading :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Reef just wondering, I presume there have been times you have used UV, and times you have not. When you went from no UV, to starting UV, did you find a drop in nitrate shortly after starting UV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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