electricfish37 Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 I have a pair of breeding angels which have laid 2 batches of eggs. The first time, a couple of months ago, the eggs were attacked by the large number of small snails in the tank, and I only managed to rear 1 baby. so I cleaned the tank and no longer have any snails in there. 2 days ago the angels laid again, and I immediately removed the parents thinking this would ensure they had the chance to hatch. But within 24 hours, all the eggs were covered in a white mould - looked like cotton wool -so I suppose I've lost that lot. Can anybody tell me what that mould is, and why it occurred? How do I stop it happening again? Is it best to remove the parents? Any advice much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 you will get the fungus if the parents are not much good at looking after them. Most breeder will pull the eggs out and put then into another tank (no need to be large, smaller is better at first.). Add a few drops of meth blue, this will help to stop the eggs from getting fungus. Also no need for anything else in the tank other than an airstone bubbling slow over the eggs. after a week add a small air powered sponge filter. Not the only way, but one of the better ones i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Eggs need good water movement/aeration to survive. Normally the parents would fan the eggs. Its normally recommended to just let them raise them themselves. They are cichlids, and will look after their young ones, they'll keep the eggs clean and circulated, pick up wrigglers (when the eggs pop tails), and feed the young. I've also heard of people removing one parent where needed, but never both. Those that remove cichlid eggs, normally place them in a small bare bottom tank near an airstone (for circulation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricfish37 Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Thanks for those 2 suggestions. Maybe I'll get it right next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 I used to breed thousands of angels and always removed the eggs. I used to have a bare tank ( 24x12x12 inches) with a 100x100mm slate with hooks hung off the top of the tank as angels like to spawn near the top of the tank. When they have laid remove the eggs to a small bare tank I used 150x150mm and place an air stone in front of the eggs to cause good water movement but not on the eggs. The white stuff is fungus that attacks the infertile eggs but will spread to the fertile ones if left. Dont use methylene blue unless you have to, but it will stop the fungus spreading if needed. I used to place the eggs into water straight from the tap because of the lack of bacteria and high disolved air content (but our water is not chlorinated) Do not feed until the fry all swarm up and start swimming, then bbs. Move to a larger bare tank after about 1-2 days to rare because 150x150 tanks get polluted too quick. Baby cories or snails will help keep the excess food under control. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 If you WANT TO KEEP "ANGEL FRY" and rear them, You had better get used to the fact that the parents WILL EAT THE FRY after about four days, if not before. I breed ALTUM"S, SCALARE.......Blushing Marble Koi Golden Black Lace in Large numbers, and always remove the eggs and artificially hatch and rear them. I will post a piccy of my spawning of the 08 -09-06 as soon as I can load it. Email me if you want to know how I do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I hope I get this right. :oops: Picture of my fry hatched on 2nd Sept. 2006. They are Marble.... Blushing.... Koi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Sorry if its a stupid question i brought 4 young angels from a breeder via trademe theve grown up now and two seem to be attacking the other 2 relentlessly and sticking together I take it this means those 2 have paired up ? is there any issues with breeding different coulor angelfish together etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Some crosses are good like black or marble to gold, and some not so good like blusher (lack of stripe gene) to silver. It often helps to avoid breeding brother and sister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 The two that appeared to have paired up are a striped and a black quite nice looking fish too better than ones ive seen i the petstore any way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I agree with alanmin4304, there are several "Protocols" to follow if you want to breed "PURE STRAIN COLOURS". It doesnt really matter what you cross to get "KOI" as they have been adulterated over time to get that colour result. Keep "Black's" mated to "Black's"....."Blushing" to "Blushing" and so on. If you see a fish with a nice "VEIL TAIL" and want to introduce the gene, be prepared for a long journey and a lot of culling of rubbish fish. In reality all the offspring of the cross should carry the Veil Tail gene, but in practise you may only get 5% that show it. Those are the fish you keep to carry on the line with. Never, ever cross any fish that you know for certain are "Pure Strain" as you will start to adulterate them as well and over successive breedings you will have created a nightmare of aborted colours, not to mention fish. Go for it and good luck, "BUT BEWARE THE DEFORMITIES AND ABNORMALITIES THAT LURK IN BAD CROSSES" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Ive never really even considered breeding them before it just that they seem to have formed this pair and i have some spare tanks and have breed and am breeding, drawf gouramis,fighters, dainos, whiteclouds, guppys lol, and a new challenge would be fun. dont think ill be thinking beyound the fry from these two. Does it work like a certian percetage would be black and a certain percentage would be striped etc. Or is one colour dominant so all the fry will carry that colour?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Hi Seth Good luck with breeding them. Without going down the "GENE" road, I'll just say that you'll get a "HOTCH POTCH" of colour. Neither Black, Silver, or any specific colour. I'm picking that you will get a "HALF BAKED MARBLED EFFECT" which has no symmetry or colour stability as far as shading goes. Try the breeding thing and sell the offspring for community tanks, they will be good in those but as far as line or Strain Breeding goes ...Forget it. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Angel genes are in pairs and with that cross you will end up as Amaazonian said, with a single marble gene and stripes---- not a good cross. You will know soon if not already what sex each is and should be able to obtain a better partner for each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Yes i have been thinking and they are such nice fish ( i brought them of a breeder on trademe same guy i got my female dwarf gouramis) that if im going to breed them i might as well breed more nice fish, so im going to buy more blacks and try and breed some. I love black angel fish and i really dont like marbled fish at all. I would like to go down the gene road as i have bred birds (love birds, indian ringnecks, finches etc) and have a simple understanding of genitic inheritance if any one is ever interested . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hi Seth Yep, I'll walk the gene road with you but you had better bring a "Pup tent and a large cut lunch" cause we'll be on the road a fair while. :lol: The gene pool of fish is a science in itself so the more that join the discussion the better. Email me direct to start off. cheers Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 IF you wanna read up on angelfish genetics try this link http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/genetics.htm these are brilliant articles on angel genetics. I printed them off and put them in a clear file so i could read them in my own time and refer to them as required. Good luck with your breeding. Keep us posted on your progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Black angels sell well usually. All black fish are weak so you are best to try to go for black angels with a single black gene rather than double. You will also get a better looking fish if you can get the veiltail gene in there as well. Black and gold is a good looking combination. Black is dominant over both gold and silver so I would try to get a veiltail gold or silver and you will end up with some of each and veiltail as well. If you go black to black you will get at least 25% double black gene which is very weak. With angels my aim was to try and get a variety of different fish from one spawning (easier to sell) but avoid the messy combinations like partial marbles, partly striped or blushers with other bits and bobs. They do best if you allow them to find their own pairs but you usually need to do the pairing to get the genes you want. You should know what sex they are by now if they are pairing. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Hi TAKE NOTE OF THIS; it is sometning I'm aware of but has not been posted by anyone either. ANY FISH WHICH CARRIES THE BLACK GENE (LET ALONE THE DOUBLE BLACK GENE) IS DOOMED FROM THE START. REASON::::: The Black colouration of a fish is caused by a substance "MELANIN" ( like humans when in the sun...You can get Melanoma) and is extremely prone to producing cancerous tumours. :evil: The weakest part of a Black Angel Fish is it's eyes and that is where most tumours will start. I will try and get a piccy of my Breeding "Black Veiltail Angel" who has a tumour on his eye, but I keep him well medicated as he is six years old and a part of my family, (so to speak) and I'll be sorry to lose him. If you are going to breed "any fish' with lots of black colouration do it with the utmost care. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 This is a piccy of my Breeding Pair of Black (Female) and Black Lace (Male) Angels. The male is old, (5 years) but a character and he still does the business. You will note his eye is white (Sorry the pix isnt that clear) and that is a Tumour. He has been "Vetted" :lol: by a vet and he is medicated so he is in no danger or pain. But this is what you can get with "ANY" fish with a lot of black colouration. That includes "Swordtails" and "Molly's". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 If you want to do a cross with a fish that is a bit weaker like a double black or a double veil tail it usually works best if that is the male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Lol so I like black angel fish and i am pretty sure i have two black males and 2 striped female angles. I was going to try and find some nice black females and breed more black angel fish but thats a bad idea due to bad problems with tumors etc. So breeding over a veiltail silver would be a good idea. Now then a silver is a fish with no stripes?? or just a striped silver angel fish like i own ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Hi Seth, The "Silver" angels you mentioned are just as like my avatar. They are actually my breeders, (Sorry, just the male) and nice fish they are too. :lol: Silver is the dominant colour as that is the wild caught colour, and your silver VEILTAIL should be a good cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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