Sump design help plse

[chimera]

go THROUGH the wall!! seriously, if you cant achieve what you want to achieve because of space limitations, a small hole in the wall ain't gonna hurt a thing and its going to make your life SO much easier. there are of course some superbly designed "mini-sumps" out there but why squeeze it into a confined area when you can CUT HOLES IN WALLS!

if that doesnt appeal to you, post the dimensions for your skimmer, the display tank volume, laguna 7 lph plus overflow outlet size. also the maximum dimensions of your sump plus height limitations above it.

[lduncan]

:roll: the BEST solution is not always the one that WORKS the best. things like "ease of use", "better priced", "more reliable" are some words that spring to mind. if that was not the case then 'the warehouse' would not exist

All those things factor in to determining what the best solution is. So the best solution is the one which works best based on your priorities, requirements etc.

[wasp]

i have used full syphon and dorso, i like the full syphon but i do not have the saftey stand pipe and would rather not have to drill my tank for a second stand pipe. is there a way around having the saftey pipe but still remain full syphon? im only interested in full syphon as im running out of room to have the baffels 50mm apart.

i have no reason not to go through the wall other than its more work.

One way is to tee the emergency overflow into the standpipe, no need to drill a second hole in the glass, long as the inlets are a bit smaller so they cannot both get blocked down below.

But other than that, what Chimera said.

[chimera]

All those things factor in to determining what the best solution is. So the best solution is the one which works best based on your priorities, requirements etc

there you go again, wrong.

product A might be (financially) cheaper so better for the pocket, but its not so reliable. product B might be more reliable but not as easy to use. product C might be easier to use, but not as cheap or reliable.

so which product is the best Layton?

priorities, requirements

these are unique to individuals. what your priorities and requirements are maybe different to mine.

do you NOW get the point everyone is trying to make? what you think is the better product, solution or whatever does not mean everyone else (personally) thinks that it is.

[lduncan]

Well, like i've said it all depends on your priorities and requirements.

Try reading what I've said, instead of making up what you think I've said.

Layton

[chimera]

OMG you just dont get it do you

[wasp]

Layton, stop whinging.

Others want to discuss sumps etc, not your personal issues.

Anything useful? such as an answer for JDM?

[lduncan]

Chimera, you're more or less saying what i'm saying.

Which is why I don't understand this:

there you go again, wrong.

How is that wrong. The best solution by definition IS the one which works best given your priorities requirements etc. You just said this yourself.

Again there is always a single best solution to a problem.

Layton

[jetskisteve]

my input... my skimmer is RIGHT next to my return pump+ I have NO BUBBLES am i just lucky

[lduncan]

Layton, stop whinging.

Others want to discuss sumps etc, not your personal issues.

Anything useful? such as an answer for JDM?

I'm not the one talking about personal issues, you guys are.

Incidentally wasp, you were the one who sidetracked the thread to begin with, with your "personal issues".

Layton

[puttputt]

my input... my skimmer is RIGHT next to my return pump+ I have NO BUBBLES am i just lucky

failing eyesight

[KP]

so you have no bubbles coming out of your skimmer?

[jetskisteve]

SFA

[KP]

??

[chimera]

How is that wrong. The best solution by definition IS the one which works best given your priorities requirements etc. You just said this yourself.

fair enough, my bad. you did use the word "your" in there so it does individualise it for a change.

Again there is always a single best solution to a problem

Yes, but that "best solution" is (not always) the best solution to someone else. Therefore it makes it an opinion, not fact. I dont want to get pedantic on words, but the point is you push what you want to be fact but its really just your opinion. Ahh it doesnt really matter anyway. I cant be arsed with it.

[lduncan]

so you have no bubbles coming out of your skimmer?

no

[wasp]

Incidentally wasp, you were the one who sidetracked the thread to begin with, with your "personal issues".

Layton

Rubbish.

It was this remark that started it.

(don't use a durso)

I then pointed out some people make statements as if they are facts, as that is what you did. IMO your statement was an opinion, you should have made that clear.

Your origional remark that started it I believe was intended to start an argument, as you knew how you got people riled up last time.

Would have been better to say "I prefer a durso", something like that.

Anyhow you wanted an argument, and once again you succeeded, well done!

[jetskisteve]

poor bloke new to the forum and has to read all this shit

[JDM]

I agree, keep it simple as possible. Both in terms of equipment, and methodologies.

A simple glass box is more than sufficient for a sump. No need for baffles at all, so long as your overflow design is right (don't use a durso), you won't get micro bubbles.

Incidentally wasp, you were the one who sidetracked the thread to begin with, with your "personal issues".

Layton, you posted on mon sep 04 10:14pm, with you personal opnion of dorsos, this will effect the desgin of a sump but you didnt clearly state the differance between the 2 stand pipes, this would have been helpful for anyone who has no experance with both setups. and it was your personal opnion, not the only best way, wasp didnt post untill tuse sep 05 12:56am.

not sure how you can justify saying wasp took this off topic with personal issues, when you posted a personal opinion and then wasp came in with a very informitave post.

give up layton, pies post sums it up.

now do you have anything to add regarding the design of a sump?

[lduncan]

There's that classic wasp tactic, taking a comment completely out of context, just to be argumentative.

The context was:

I agree, keep it simple as possible. Both in terms of equipment, and methodologies.

A simple glass box is more than sufficient for a sump. No need for baffles at all, so long as your overflow design is right (don't use a durso), you won't get micro bubbles.

And as you see, the statement was conditional, based on keeping the design simple, avoiding micro bubbles and avoiding having to think about placing baffels.

And what was the justification for not using the durso? Well it was because a durso deliberately introduces air. That's not an opinion. It's how it works.

It wasn't a blanket comment "don't use a durso" like you've been suggesting.

Layton

[jetskisteve]

poor bloke new to the forum and has to read all this shit

[tee-em]

Ummm... thanks for input. I think

Yes used Google sketch, really easy once you get the hang of manipulating objects. Spinning the object is still good fun to try and get correct orientation The key for me was to grab any side or orientation by making sure you zoom in on it with the edge closest to you that you intend to stick or align with something. Then everything seems to snap a lot easier into place.

Some really good constructive ideas.

So far I take this from the bits and pieces:

1. Multiple sumps design due to cabinet = too difficult.

I see the sense in that , spend a week-end sort the design to have one big sump, save heaps of time over the next few years maintaining and enjoy benefits of bigger and easily maintained sump.

2. Need to look at durso vs full siphon. I have the luxury of two holes drilled in overflow box of display tank. One was for overflow, reckoned the more the merrier when getting it done. Criteria is quiet with few bubbles. Will still check this out. Keen to get sump in and can play with stand pipes later.

3. Using in sump skimmer deltec 1250 , seems obvious to place it close to inlet to sump. Reckon it would be safest to have a baffle to maintain height for in sump skimmer and heater. So at this stage keen to get at least one baffle close to skimmer end.

4.Refugium, still keen on this and the idea of creating critters to feed display. So this will mean at least one more baffle... hmm can see another Google sketch coming

5. Its hard looking at an empty tank sitting in the lounge while I type this message and plan.

Chrs for the suggestions.

[chimera]

1. Multiple sumps design due to cabinet = too difficult.

I see the sense in that , spend a week-end sort the design to have one big sump, save heaps of time over the next few years maintaining and enjoy benefits of bigger and easily maintained sump.

is it becvause the tank shape needs to be irregular? or just a non-common shape? you can get long low size tanks easily enough. consider DIY or getting someone to make it for you? www.melevsreef.com is a good start

2. Need to look at durso vs full siphon. I have the luxury of two holes drilled in overflow box of display tank. One was for overflow, reckoned the more the merrier when getting it done. Criteria is quiet with few bubbles. Will still check this out. Keen to get sump in and can play with stand pipes later.

In that case, full syphon would be best. You could also do a combo of both.

3. Using in sump skimmer deltec 1250 , seems obvious to place it close to inlet to sump. Reckon it would be safest to have a baffle to maintain height for in sump skimmer and heater. So at this stage keen to get at least one baffle close to skimmer end.

The first section I would imagine is where the skimmer will sit. You need to ensure that there are no bubbles around the skimmer or it will effect it's operation. There are numerous methods you can use to further minimize bubbles from the overflow pipe.

4.Refugium, still keen on this and the idea of creating critters to feed display. So this will mean at least one more baffle... hmm can see another Google sketch coming

Fuge's don't need to be large. There are some really cool sump designs on melev's reef I posted above. Get some ideas off there.

5. Its hard looking at an empty tank sitting in the lounge while I type this message and plan.

[suphew]

im am going to improve the sump setup on my current tank, so i will bounce some ideas i have around here.

i am limited by size under my tank, or i could put some holes through my wall and go for a big sump.

im thinking that i will have 3 "compartments" one for sump feed from overflow, one to house my skimmer (insump deltec 1250) heaters etc, and one for my return pump (luguna 7)

as i said i am limited by space under my tank, i will post some measurements of what space i have avalable and dimentions of my equipment.

looking for advice from experenced reefers, how would you set it up if you had the same equipment as me?

i have used full syphon and dorso, i like the full syphon but i do not have the saftey stand pipe and would rather not have to drill my tank for a second stand pipe. is there a way around having the saftey pipe but still remain full syphon? im only interested in full syphon as im running out of room to have the baffels 50mm apart.

i have no reason not to go through the wall other than its more work.

Are you currently using the L7 for your return? I do on my tank, the sump is just below the tank so head hight is 1.5 meters or so, my sump is a standard 4 foot tank about 2/3 full so lets say 120+liters, the sump is too small for the pump, the water just rockets through. The pump would drain the sump in a minute or two.

To save you a little research on full syphon vs stand pipe, its pretty simple really, full syphon if set up correctly will be silent and bubble free, but the down sides are you lose some safety factor (which is why full syphon users often have a back up pipe) and they may need to be adjusted as things change over time, ie algae build up in pipes, pump output changing etc. Durso's if setup correctly can be made very quiet (quiet enough that you can't hear it), have a very high safety factor, don't need adjusting (once they have been tuned), the down sides are bubbles in your sump, and they can sometimes be difficult to tune quiet enough if the sizing and setup isn't right.

The reason for the diffference in safety factor is because by design the full syphon has to have an adjustable restriction (ie half turned off tap) so you can tune the water level in your over flow to stop it sucking in air, the durso doesn't need this.

The cost difference between the two isn't huge, durso needs a little more plumping bits, F/S needs and extra hole/bulkhead/tap.

Before commiting one way or the other you should note a couple of things, first the difference between durso and f/s is just the top end (if you have two overflow holes as you do) the extra plumbing to try a durso setup will only cost you $15-$20, if you don't like it you can just pull the top off and you have a f/s system. The other thing to consider is that the durso is by far the most common system to use, it could be that reefers are all sheep, but for me I'm happy to stick with the flock.

I have tried to make this as un-biasd as possible but I'm sure there will be other comments. :lol:

[JDM]

yep, im using the L7 now, full bore! head height is approx 1.2m it will drain my sump in under a 60 secs. i like the flow it provides, and everyting is handling it.

will post some dimentions soon.