lduncan Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Pies was inferring that those links were just random pages from zeovit.com, and that I was hoping no one would actually read them. I said that there is a common theme amongst those threads I posted, not necessarily in general. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I said that there is a common theme amongst those threads I posted, not necessarily in general. Would have been more honest to say that in the first place. I do remember you complaining about people giving misinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 What? You obviously just misunderstood the context of it. Not misinformation at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 What? You obviously just misunderstood the context of it. No you are wrong. You definately inferred it was a common theme. The context was left unclear, the reader would assume it was a common theme with zeovit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 im interested, what are your theories? im not sure if you missed this but im still interested in what your theories are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Exactly. Layton, take some of your own advice, be realistic... Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 The old zeo debate. just love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Several parts to how I think zeovit does what it does. Heavy metals mainly iron in the standard base zeovit system. But also copper in other korallen zucht products. It can induce corals to bleach, from iron enrichment (reaction can be genra and species specific, and tolerances can be built in some corals). Also it appears to make them more susceptible, or promote bacterial diseases (Saharan dust). Bleached corals can be colourful. Then there are the coagulant properties of aluminium sulfate helping water clarity. A whole host of bacterial processes which come with the high nutrient environment created when running zeovit. Siderophores created from active sequestering of particular nutrients, which result in bacteria flocking.... Search for zeovit you'll find everything you want to know, plus much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 The iron part of your theory is clearly wrong as I showed you last time we went through it. Have to wonder why you just keep on repeating it anyway. Your bacterial theory sounds odd also. Are you saying zeovit creates high nutrients, to encourage bacteria to remove those nutrients? Please explain what, in your mind, would be the point of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 prove it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Your theory Layton, your job to prove it, not mine. No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 What? You said the iron part of my theory is clearly wrong... so prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Been done. Now you prove your theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Layton - It is clearly wrong, WASP has shown us this. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacific blue Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 WOW, a pretty touchy subject i can see. Yes im a knob for asking this but what exactly is 'zeovit'??? :-? i have lookd on zeovit.com and other threads about it but i still have no idea what it is?!?! can someone please fill me in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 From what I gather, it is using zeolite (rocks) in a open top reactor with water flowing through them, there are a number of additives that go into the system, the basics consist of zeobak (bacteria for the zeo rock) zeofood7 (food for the bacteria) and zeostart2 (a phosphate and nitrate reducer) The system is used to reduce/control phosphate and nitrate. There are many more products available that all have their purpose but im not familiar with them. Its a touchy topic but I cant see why, as in essence it is another system/products that have been tested for aquarium use and found to have benefits and drawbacks, what systems don’t? As many have said before there are great tanks using the zeovit system and there are great tanks that don’t, it really comes down to a personal opinion and what you find to be best suited to your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Maybe it's just me, but an additive system which recommends to cut back a tad on dosing when you notice that you're starting to kill corals with it is quite unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Maybe it's just me, but an additive system which recommends to cut back a tad on dosing when you notice that you're starting to kill corals with it is quite unique. cut back on which product? i must admit that dose sound strange. i havnt read that anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Maybe start with reading the zeoguide: High water flow through the media in already stocked tanks, especially during the start up of this system, has shown to cause slow tissue loss in SPS corals. We recommend a lower flow rate through the media during the first few weeks of introduction of this method to a tank already stocked with corals. In order to reach the full potential of the system, we recommend using the above mentioned dosing amounts and dosing intervals to slowly find the optimum values for your system without overdosing. Many of the added elements have toxic effects on the animals if they reach certain levels and, therefore, bring more disadvantage than advantage. We recommend, when dosing elements with unknown effects, to dose carefully and only once. Wait a few days and observe your corals reactions. A very helpful parameter is the coloration of your corals. We do not recommend the addition of the following products from the start. Allow the necessary time for your corals to adjust to the new environment. We recommend dosing these products after coral tissue becomes lighter. The proper time to do this can vary greatly and depends on your tanks starting nutrient load. This all seems very consistent with the heavy metals part of my theory. Which incidentally, wasp has not proven to be wrong. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 so if used according to the instructions, then you will not start to "kill" corals? if i overdosed on any product it will have a negitave effect, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 The thing is how you define overdose. With any other product, an overdose is when you actually use more than the recommended amount. However with zeovit, an overdose is when you're corals start to react badly to the dosing, even though you may be following the dosing recommendations. So with zeovit yes you can start to kill corals even when following the instructions. Granted they have tried to reduce this in recent times, by reformulating certain products, and also SIGNIFICANTLY changing the dosing scheme. They have done this for this very reason, people were having, and from what i see, still do have problems, even when following the guide. But that's just how the system works, and something to be aware of if you're going to use it. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 so what is the recommended dose? by reading what you have quoted there is no recomended dose, if you dont like the product dont use it dont go around saying it is s@@t the manufacturers obviously have spent alot of time and money trailling it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Its a touchy topic but I cant see why, as in essence it is another system/products that have been tested for aquarium use and found to have benefits and drawbacks, what systems don’t? As many have said before there are great tanks using the zeovit system and there are great tanks that don’t, it really comes down to a personal opinion and what you find to be best suited to your needs. Well said. I think the reason it is a "touchy topic", on this board anyway, is down to one particular guy who is detirmined to dominate every zeovit thread, constantly plug his own rather warped, and unproven, viewpoint and theories on the subject, and ALWAYS get the last word. For anyone interested in something a little more balanced, written by the guys who actually manufacture and research the product range, here is a link to the Zeovit manual (pdf format) http://captiveoceans.com/pdfs/ZEOguide1.02.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 it really comes down to a personal opinion and what you find to be best suited to your needs In a way maybe, I believe it is more for advance reefers as the product realise on someone with experience to notice all the changes and then change doses to suit. Also there is not much margin for error in dosing. Unless you are keeping acropora/stony corals then it is not worth using it. More for advanced hobbyist trying to get the edge. The product is a tool and if you don’t use it right then you won’t get the results. Just because you use zeovit does not mean you will have a spectacle tank like all the nice zeovit tanks overseas as we only see a few nz zeovit tanks coming anywhere near the standard of the overseas tank. Success is based on the person’s experience/Knowledge as the hobbyist with the spectacular tanks would still have nice tanks if they did not use it as they also invest in quality equipment which makes a big difference. In terms of how the product works, I believe you don’t even need the zeolite rock. But it does make the system more effective as the rocks do something in its own right. Would recommend the zeolite rocks as they do clean the tank. You can get it from some main retail pet’s stores. I think Tunze is the only brand in the stores that sells zeolite that can be used in seawater as you can’t use any zeolite rocks. The zeobak is the bacteria culture which you add and then you feed it with zeofood7 which is a type of acid. You need a good skimmer to get good results as the skimmer takes out the bacteria which in turn holds po4/nitrate. You will find a number of products work the same way as bacteria filtration is the best in my opinion as that how the ocean works. Anyone tried CLR in your tank?. Its is a acid used to remove calcium deposits. I put a bit through my skimmer to clean the venturi valve. The skimmer went nuts . Maybe we could dose our tanks with CLR to remove nutrients. CLR contains lactic and gluconic acids. The big debate about zeovit could be that nothing in the bottles is disclosed so you don’t even now what you are adding to your tank. The product is not patented so the products could be common products that you cant patent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bychineva Posted August 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 so what zeovite products do you use in your system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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