Pies

I don't pay retail

So you want someone else to pay $70 for it then give it to you? I'll jump on board here, I want to add 3-5 more yellow tangs to my tank, I don't want to pay the $150ea they cost in the shops though, so if anyone has one or more they want to give away let me know. Cheers

Best photos i've seen posted on this site (that is by the poster, not just links). I am impressed 10/10. Pie

October 2006.

From what I've seen both Wasp and Cracker have stunners, I don't think my tank could hold a candle to either.

Rated by who? Probably himself.

Outstanding!

? OK..

Hi Mike, I grew up in Nelson. the first thing you need to do is buy a book. I would buy 'Tullock Natural Reef Aquairums'. Its the best book for practical setup. To answer some of your questions quickly. The smallest tank should be the largest you can fit/afford. If you considering 3 foot or smaller I would say forget it. Metal Halide lighting is pretty much a requirement for keeping an Anemone. No halides, no anemones. You cannot use sand from the beach, its full of silicates. The sand in marine tanks is crushed coral rock. Sand is not required anyway. No skimmer? The general concencious is no. Without an export system you will struggle from day one. I know 1 guy doing it here, and he has algae issues, health issues and general problems. I think he will add a skimmer very soon. Minimum kit required? Its a big list: Refractomotor - measures sg of salt water Test Kits - Nitrate, CA, P04, MG, KH, PH. MINIMUM, without these you are in trouble. Skimmer (sorry!) Heater Circulation pumps RO/DI water purifier Water cirulation pumps timers Supliments (KH/MG/CA) Live rock xkg (more rock the better, this is your filter, pay between $10-$15kg). I have about 250kg in my system Marine tanks work with stability, and fail without stability. Its an expensive hobby, be ware of the costs. Thousands of dollars. Good luck, but the book and read it. It will give you lots of help. also check www.reefcentral.com Cheers

Back to 40 years ago... Can't agree, if you think people will continue to deal with you just because they always have this is not loyalty, its a habbit. If you want people to continue to deal with you just because they always have, then you will loose them. You have to work at it. I can't comment on 40 years ago, but I have my own loyalties in my personal life, as do my customers in my professional dealings. It still exists, its a fact. Pie

I would put it to you that the motivation for being open 7 days a week is to make money, no other reason. Getting people into the hobby means getting people to spend money on the hobby. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their own heart, they do it to get our cash (nothing wrong with that, they are a shop, its their job by definition, but don't pretend its anything but a way to increase revenue). Pie

I think we all pretty much agree. Service is a valuable comodity if you value it. My Yellow Tang came from Jansens 3 kings, sold to me by Ben many years ago. At the time I think it was $189.00. Hollywood just around the corner had Yellow tangs for $165.00. I went to Jansens, then to Hollywoods, then back to Jansens and brought my fish before I caught my flight. While there I also enquired as to the price of some light bulbs (MH 250watt DE). I went home and organsed them through Reef to save myself a few hundred dollars. To be honest, I couldn't get a Yellow Tang from anywhere else, so thats where I brought it, but I brought the best one from a shop who made me feel good about it, even thought it cost $25 more than a place 5 mins up the road. An example where price didn't win. When I went to buy bulbs, it was different I knew exactly what I wanted, and price was my only concern, nothing Jansens could have done other than matched (or come very close while I was physically there) it would have had me purchasing from them. No amount of good will or good service could have changed that. I work for a large company, over 2000 staff, we are very successful. We concentrate (and by this I mean we spend time and money) of winning customer loyalty, not just customer satisfaction, loyalty. We have customers we will keep for life, or if we do loose them it will be at our own hand. Suphews example above is a good one. He is about to get some expensive work done on his bike, over $500, and recently purchased over $500 worth of stuff (as did I & as did another Friend). There are a dozen places in Wellington we could go, several closer to our homes and work. We all went to our 'local' and brought this gear, I don't want to speak for Suphew or Chris, but I never compared price or anything else. I know they charge me what they think is fair, I've never felt anything but happy. So I say 'get me a piston, rings, big end bearing, mc5 rear tyre and a seat cover' and thats it. I walk in the following week and square up my bill. Good for me, easy for them. Win win. I could have gone online for Piston/Rings for example, saved approx 50% ($150 kiwi vs $300 kiwi), but didn't. Not sure why, just didn't feel right to not give them 1st option. Brands would have been the same. Pie

Q - Other than selling product how can you say the shops 'support' the hobby? I mean they make margin on everything they sell, its a business, I doubt they are in it to break even or loose money so people like me can enjoy the hobby. It comes back to why there is so much bitching and drama on this site. Its a business, people are protecting their patch and their revenue streams. Doest the guy who owns Jansens (Rolph Jansen?) drive a Rolls Royce? He should be thanking us for our support Pie

Dogmatix - I see that as a very important service that a shops offers, which is what Fay was getting at I think. Holding onto a fish for 12 weeks so it was there when she wanted it is definatly catering to convieniance or impulse. I have no issue with that, infact its a model I support in all things. For example I just brought an XBOX360 game, I was in the mall and there it was, I knew I could get it $30 cheaper on TM/Mail order but I wanted it right then, so I brought it, knowing I had options to save money but not being willing to wait. As for sales and service, not a factor, it what we in our trade call a transactional sale. I knew what I wanted and I brought it, all they did was faciltite the sale. In this situation it was based on convienance, if I had brought it online, it would have been on money. I own a motorbike, and service is important for me in this regard, I want to deal with people I trust and who make me feel good, price nor convienance is not a major factor, it exists, but generally I give them all the business I can, they do what they can for me. In my trade we call this a loyalty based relationship, they will always get 1st option on my purchase. This is the reality of doing business. Many wholesalers in many trades are forced to go to market direct, look at Dell and the computer industry as an example. Dell destroyed a lot of companies, but they remain successful and the consumer benifited. pie

Fay - So the point it you will mail order anything you can get as long as its cheaper, but will pay retail for things like live stock because you can't get them mail order? If you knew in advance you were going to get an atlantic blue tang, and retail was $350 but mail order was $100 you would mail order it, but you couldn't so you didn't. Pie