mrshanepaul

Bring it on. I love a good debate. Better not forget your facts either...

baby axoies are so cute. Variety is the spice of life, so mixing and matching will definitely help more than trying to find a silver bullet. (I have never found anyone saying otherwise) The above argument was rather annoying to read, because it is clear that both parties are fish experts trying to argue nutrition - a subject I know something about: When you talk about how nutritious foods are, you refer to the % calorific content, not the raw weight. In modern labelling this is not the case, leading to all sorts of misnomers. They are not hard to work out if you know, but most people can't be bothered. (note- these companies do this ON PURPOSE) ========================== e.g. FAT content Ripples chips: http://www.eta.co.nz/Eta/products/NutritionalInfo.aspx?id=266 Potato chips (see link if in doubt) usually weigh in at 35g of fat per 100g. One might conclude that chips were therefor 35% fat and that this was bad enough. This correct from a mass point of view, but completely misleading. Fat has roughly TWICE the calories per gram of either protein OR carbs. Total % of calories from fat is actually: 51% (35*2/(65+70) * 100) Add in the fact that the rest of the chip is 6grams protein and 55grms carbs, this is NOT a healthy meal. Actual calorific content: Fat: 51% carbs: 40% protein: 4.5% Since a well balanced diet is mainly trying to maintain a healthy carb/fat/protein ratio, these foods are FAR WORSE than they may first appear, and they appear pretty bad. ========================== More relevant to daphnia: eg: Soft dink Coke has 10 grams of sugar pr 100mls (=100grams) and almost nothing else of consequence but water. By weight you would assume that coke is 10 percent sugar. Of course this calculation is easy by calorific content: Fat: 0% Protein: 0% carbs: 100% The water is obvious not important since it is not really part of our FOOD intake. (obviously it is vital, but we are assuming you are drinking water) ========================= So how does this relate to daphnia?? Well if daphnia is 98% water, we can likewise ignore this content. What we really want is its calorific content and how this relates to others measured the same way. ("dry weight" is usually quoted for this reason, but with daphnia and shrimp, they contain significant %'s of ash ) Protein content by dry weight is 20-25% in adults and over 50% in juveniles. Daphnia (wet weight): Protein: 4% (or grams/100grams) fat: 0.54% Carbs: 0.67% Thus the nutritional makup by calorific content is: fat: 18.5% carbs: 11.5% protein: 70% Brine Shrimp: From: http://www.artemiaworld.com/ Wet weight: Protein: 65% (or grams/100grams wet) Fat: 6.8% Carbohydrate: 25.0% Ash: 4.4% Moisture: 8.0% Calorific breakdown: Fat: 13.1% carb: 24.1% protein: 62.7% Not much difference at the macro level really. ================= This all has to be taken with a grain of salt of course. There are many more factors to nutrition than just fat/carbs/protein. What types of fats are important as well as vitimins and so forth. Since I doubt anyone here has a "reccommended daily intake" of vitimins for any of their fish, let alone for these critters, this is probably not something you can investigate. Common wisdom for fish will most likely not apply to a meat eating salamander anyways!? (they love red meat apparently, fish cannot handle the saturated fats) Again, this is WHY variety is important! Further, Daphnia have other physical advantages. They are fresh water and can live in a fresh tank until eaten, unlike brineys. Less chance of parasites and bacterial infections. (I believe - I am not an expert) Easier to grow. Cheaper... Even if brine shrimp turn out to be a little better, are they really worth the increased expense? Will it actually make that much of a difference? ====== lol. And as i am writing this, we just got given free left over pizza - it is one thing to know the nutritional value, it is another to resist the cheesy goodness....

It has been. I have done searches on the forums for all sorts of things and found good info. The best discussion was on filters and undergravel systems. Everyone got all upset and a whole heap of useful information leaked out. It was a very informative argument...unlike election debates... (I had read an article saying that UGF were rubbish and dangerous etc etc etc and so looked it up)

Thanks for all the Hellos! Even from the vampiress... If only that made a pet that looks like this: :bounce: The closest I have seen is the mudskipper. Anyways, turns out the docile fish was about to lay a huge dump. (or a parasitic worm was about to infest my tank!?) Long (about 1cm) stringy thing started coming out his butt. Took about 5 minutes to pass it. And I thought the disconcerted look on his face was due to new tank stress. He just needed a good old crapola. A good sit down and crapola solved many a problem I guess. And I refer to it as he, but I am 89% it is a she. Woman are not suppose to dump like that I thought...

hey, that ain't me. Sorry about that. The guy at hollywood fish store in mt albert convinved me to put a few Danios and do it that way. They are very cute. They are very active and seem to be having fun. Only one seems a little depressed and stationary, but I don't blame him really.

Just saying hello from Auckland City. Have been reading forums for a few days and preparing my two, $30, 2' tanks and thought I would say hello. So far acquiring goods from tradme and fish shops on the cheap. Damn there is a lot of information to absorb, been reading a HUGE amount of info. Luckily I enjoy this kind of research. I am the "read up on it all before starting" type of person, rather than the "screw it up and ask for help" sort. For those that are interested: Want to try axolotls in one tank and have the other tropical. Not sure what type of fish yet for the tropical but since my heaters are yet to arrive, it is not that important. Tried a "fishless cycle" with a chunk of meat, but today I tested the water just now and found zero ammonia and zero nitrites. Lucky me. I used supermarket steak and figured that this would be as bacteria ridden as anything I could find. All I can think now is that the preservative level in the meat killed everything??! So it is off to get cloudy ammonia. I really don't want to end up with any floating fish just yet - I am too . Also my partner (who has grumbled once or twice about costs) may not appreciate the delicate nature of fish in "new tank syndrome" and see it as: "idiot man who does not know what he is doing and will waste a whole bunch of our money only to end up with bad tasting fish cakes and I really wish he had taken up some other hobby...[etc] ". Don't mind advice, but I am not asking for help just yet. ;o) Will see how the ammonia goes and then start bleating. (so much for reading up first) I am a bit miffed that I have so far failed to sustain bacteria. One might take this as a warning!? Not me, I shall continue! Current thoughts: Water went cloudy (yellow/brownish) over 24 hours and got a light frothing on surface of water. Started to smell "like aquarium" with a very faint urine smell. (I THOUGHT this was ammonia) Test kit says clear on all counts. (drops made no colour even when they first hit the water) Added black stones bought from bird barn. Boiled and washed them well (I thought) but when they were added the water went went slighty white and cloudy. Auckland water stinks of chlorine and most probably chlorimine, but double dosed++ the AquaPlus to make sure. Also used stress-zyme an hour later. Could be any one of these causing the problem I guess. Will try more things.