rossco

Yup, thought about that. What do you recommend Aloise? I think that is his main challenge - repairing his skin, resisting infection etc as a result of the parasite attack.

Hi Fay Wasn't going to straight away but saw your post and decided to give an update on us and our PBT and how WS is going (see PBT thread) - thought it might help your decision making....

Well team this is the PBT about a week ago. Had by this stage showing signs of WS for about 2 weeks. Irritated some days more than others but still eating well and getting regularly cleaned by shrimps. This week, he has still been reasonably happy although WS coverage seemed to have increased. Most cysts kept very small though. Over the last few days we have been thinking about hauling him out as its been over 3 weeks and now sign of WS getting less. This morning he decided for us when we woke up to find him looking like this and definitely 'off-colour' behaviour wise! There isn't actually a lot of sign of WS but what looks awfully crap in the photo (taken in quarantine tank after catching him) is what I think is the damaged/dead skin sloughing (peeling) off him. After a battle of man brain versus fish brain and reflex he ended up in the QT without too much stress on him. Dunked in freshwater for 10 minutes and now starting copper treatment. He actually looked worse in the main tank than what photo shows as its after FW treatment. Now getting geared up to remove all remaining fish form main tank and do hyposalinity treatment on them in the next few days (plan 53C). I'm gonna kill this WS out of my tank even if it kills me.... Can you guys rub those fishy talismans again....

No Fay, you are bang on. There is no point in thinking we are going to change each via an internet fish forum! :lol:

Yeah, but what we we do on these forums if we didn't all have 'issues' that we could 'help' each other with? It would be so dull and boring just talking about SW fish all day...!

My thinking: - Looking back, I introduced fish that brought the whitespot with them (obviously) - I saw suspicious spots that appeared to clear up. They were on some of my first fish - the damsels. They have lovingly cultured the WS ever since making it 'endemic' in the tank. Subsequent fish haven't been as susceptible as the recent tang who only started to demonstrate WS in my main tank (not in quarantine with different water). I would have pulled him out of main tank to quarantine and treat for Ws but what then when he was right again? I am sure he was liable to be reinfected as soon as we put him back in the main tank. The only real effective option will be to remove ALL of the fish out of my main tank, treat with hyposalinity for 6+ weeks, and then return to Whitespotless main tank. Any further additions to tank would be treated by way of hyposalinity for 6 weeks. With all the drama, and risk involved in shifting fish, I am trying to put off until yup we do get a bigger tank and can combine both actions. One thing I do know, you can have a further severe case of Ws in a tank, over several weeks, without obvious signs on other resident fish who previously had whitespot. A variety of fish species MUST be able to develop a high degree of resistance/immunity to a WS attack. Yup, know I am playing with fire but some people I know do that for a career...!

Hmmmmm...hate to think how much per fillet I would have to charge! Update - 3 weeks of whitespot on PBT and he's still going strong. He has good days and bad days with the WS. Very rarely do they develop to the stage where the individual spots (cysts) become prominent. Irritation is way down last few days and he more regularly visits the 'shrimp doctors' now. Must admit though a few days back I had my spare tank and copper treatment all ready. I tell myself if he was going to go 'down' he should have done by now so surely it must only get better - I always try to see my glass as half full even when I just drank the last mouthful! Very few other fish in the tank have developed WS and they quickly disappear. Waiting for the WS to go through the cycles and hopefully each time in a less severe form. :-? C'mon guuys, rub your fishy talisman for me and Tangy....

Don't worry about what kind of camera she's using, we have a later model camera and still get crap photos cause its the mug behind it that makes the difference!

Reckon Jimmy would give you a run for your money!

EVERYTHING is great! Designed for townies as well as the good ol country folk who have bigger stomachs than most. One of my boys always has tuscan chicken, another Hawaii 50, me smokehouse chicken(but with beef pattie )! Tell 'em Ross said you can order what you want (as in make up your own combo). It'll keep them on their toes.

Put it this way....I have plenty of time to make a cup of coffee....and drink it...and make a sandwich...and eat it...

Sorry to hear about your loss Fay.

Yup, everything is pasted in! I decided that was the only affordable way to keep up my interest in SW fish tanks!

A while ago we tried a yellow tang in our tank. Went around our very young tank cleaning up all the algae it could find and thrived the first couple of weeks. Then it started to reduce its eating until it stopped completely. And then....yup, toes up in the bottom of the tank one morning. After a suitable grieving period I decided to investigate further and did a wee autopsy and found its stomach relatively full with a HUGE (compared to the size of the tang) hair ball. Picture attached. The picture is after extraction of hair ball and it being rinsed in water! Lesson - keep our hands/arms and anything else out of the tank that could introduce hair/fur/stuff that fish like tangs could mistake for hair algae! Looking back, during rock/coral rearranging I used to regularly wipe my arms with a towel. Obviously (now) a great way to introduce hair (human and cat/dog/carpet) on wet arms. :oops:

Thanks for all the prompts to post a few pictures of our PBT and tank. Here goes my first attempt. Don't know what will be worst - my photography skills (he's a fast moving little critter) or webpasting skills!

Yup, we all CAN develop immunity to parasites. Yup, the parasites can still attack us but we develop resistance to the nasty outcomes. Farming relies on it. The main reason we drench stock is for the benefit of the young who haven't developed resistance to the infestation. I can guarantee there is ALWAYS some degree of parasite infestation in stock, its the environmental/individual animal's condition that determines whether the clinical signs of it are demonstrated. "Innate Immunity Innate immunity refers to the general response to an invading pathogen or parasite regardless of that pathogen or parasite encountered (Dickerson and Clark, 1996). This form of immunity does not rely on previous encounters and includes generalised reactions such as secretion of mucus, but may include specific host cell responses (acquired genetically). While little formal study has been performed on innate immunity of marine fish to C. irritans, innate immunity of freshwater fish to I. multifiliis, both between and within host species suggests that the former may be possible. Collective anecdotal evidence from marine aquarists lends weight to the idea that some species, such as chaetodontids (butterflyfish) and acanthurids (surgeonfish and tangs) may be more prone to Marine "Ich" infections, whereas other species such as callionymids (dragonets) are not at all. Intraspecific differences in innate immunity would be much harder to detect through random observation. Acquired Immunity Acquired immunity occurs when the response is specific to the invading organism, which is recognised directly or through antigens (Dickerson and Clarke, 1996). Colorni (1987) first suggested that marine fish could acquire some immunity to C. irritans by surviving several infections. Burgess and Matthews (1995) demonstrated acquired immunity in the thick-lipped mullet, Chelon labrosus. They found that 82% of fish that had been previously exposed to high levels of theronts were immune to a secondary exposure." I hate to say this to myself but the other fish in my tank are swimming in the same water as the PBT, getting exposed to the same theronts, without clinical signs of WS.

See Fay, I was confident that I was going to raise the normal debate about things like WS - and they haven't even raised whether you can actually get rid of it yet! (I think you can but with difficulty as you need to be able to know when a fish is WS free. Just because its not 'visible' on a fish or in a tank doesn't mean to say its not there in a very small way - so when do we confidently know a fish, and therefore a tank once that fish is introduced to it, 'WS free' until the next tang-like creature is introduced to it to test it). The PBT has some form of WS every day. Always worse in the morning - often by lunchtime you wouldn't know he has it behaviourally. Some days he's a sweet as all day. Touch wood - he's had it for over two weeks and there isn't a sign on it on any of the other residents. I certainly don't have my head in a hole and know it is increasing the risk to the others but with all the views on it, its difficult to know when to take another course of action! :roll:

Hi Fay Its time to fess up and admit I have a PBT that is probably way too big for my tank. (Wait for the chorus of debate that my comments will start!) It was a chrissie present from wifie hence my hastiness to get hooked up with a bigger skimmer and everything else I could do to reduce the load in the tank! Our PBT is about 5-6" long and is a pretty neat fish. Bigger than everybody else in the tank but very peaceful. Started off that the only thing he would eat was green flakes (eg spirulina) but now eats almost anything you drop in (even meaty types of food). Loves nori now. We've had him over three weeks and he's had WS for over two of them Dosing the tank with Stop Parasite and this, the cleaner shrimps, plenty of feeding, the blow of the stream, and my karma, seems to ease it. (I'm also taking a lot of optimism from people like cracker that we can get past it together!) I wouldn't read too much in a tang not 'having' WS at a LFS - I suspect (with some degree of foundation) that tang tanks regularly have various degrees of copper treatment in an ongoing fashion. Our 4 foot tank is okay for our PB at moment but an 6-8 footer is what him and I really need!

Brian, just taking a few tips from Jimmy on how to wind you up. Nah, wasn't serious about scrubbing the rocks (it's taken far too much effort to build up the crap that they have on them) but it would be a great way to make my tank more photogenic, if only for a few hours! :lol:

Thanks Brian for that abnormally sane response to a question on this forum - so its the spike thats the main issue...the ol' nothing good happens fast in a SW tank. I'm gonna post some pictures of my tank on the forum once I have taken out all the rocks and scrubbed them...and shooed all the fish to the back of the rocks... ...cause then you guys (apart from two in HN) won't know patience isn't one of my virtues!

Just to clarify my understanding...wouldn't the nitrate production aided by the wool/fibre be the end product of the normal tank nitrogen cycle anyway ie the wool etc just hastens the conversion of nitrite to nitrate? Or is it 'additional' nitrate (from where?) that the cycle wouldn't normally have produced anyway. Rinsing filters would be a good way to export waste as long as the negatives don't outweigh the postive... :-?

My main filter system (as I see it) is rock, bacteria, and water movement. All cannisters really do is create a more efficient way of moving the water over a greater surface area of man made rock. I've added skimmer/s mainly cause the missus has added more protein factories and I couldn't sleep at night waiting for the tank to 'crash'. Now I'm going for the natural turbid high bacteria marine environment look (lots of fishies and not so many SPSs at this stage) Hope we will still be able to see the fish and things...

Yeah, but would we be brave enough to share it!???!?

I have almost the opposite problem. My maroon clown takes the first bite for himself at feeding time and then tries to feed everything else meaty to the anemone. If anything both are probably getting overfed! How much do your clowns feed it? It also removes any 'foreign objects' / debris from the area of the anemone (roughly half the %$$%* tank!) - do your clowns see the anemone food as a bit 'foreign' ?

People pay thousands for 15-20 secs of TV advertising. Reef did very well to get as much airtime as he did especially with the previews. One thing I know about the media, they all want to get their own spin on something no matter how much you try to steer them in what you think the 'right' direction might be. The media like interest stories, not facts (especially in the slot it had). They are more likely to focus on quirks outside of the tank than nice fishies and stuff inside the tank. Reef did a great job of giving them both! 'Guerrilla' marketing is one of the cheapest but most effective forms that there is. The hobby got marketed, it was only only us that even knew that it was even Reef!