henry Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Hi everyone, been awhile since I last graced these pages with my presence, am currenlty living without an aquarium of any form due to living arrangements. Looking forward (as always) to the next aquarium project. I have always liked the thought of a cube shaped aquarium, especially a planted cube tank, something about this shape looks great, and the challenge or creating an environment that is viewable from all four sides adds to the concept. Would love to see any pictures or hear descriptions of cube shaped tank projects, especially planted tanks. Cheers, Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I dont have a cube tank but i also love the cube planted tanks. 2ft x 2ft x 2ft is wicked with a 150W metal halide on top i know Dubbieboy has a 2 x 2 x 2 ft planted tank with pressurized co2 and about 150W of lighting. Hopefully he posts pics of his here Rogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbieBoy Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Happy to oblige Pics in the gallery... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/my-planted-cube-vt9283.html -DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted July 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 This tank is absolutely beautiful, congratulations! A few questions.. Firstly, is the C02 controlled with a pH sensorand solenoid, or have you simply adjusted the flow to maintain a relatively stable pH? If so, how was this acheived and was it tricky? Did you have the tank custom made, or did you mange to find a 2'x2'x2' in a retail shop? How is the Fluval internal working out? With a slightly higher load of biological matter with leaves and roots etc was considering a reasonably high flow rate, probably at least 1000lph, and most probably external to preserve the enviornment within the tank. Did you use laterite whe laying the substrate? And do you dose with fertiliser? How often is it necessary to trim plants etc? No hurry in posting this information, your input and advice is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 I run a pH of 7.2 and using DIY CO2 I get no pH drops. The easiest way to prevent pH drops is to put coral sand in your filter. I got a bag of it from Hutt Pets for $45 (its a huge bag though). I worked out that 1 handful per 200L of water in the filter increased carbonate hardness (KH) by 3dH, and did not cause a raise in pH (tapwater is 7.2, and tanks stay at 7.2 now). I use a 6dH KH in my tank with DIY CO2 and no pH swings, and no air pumps on timers, and no sick fish, and minimal water surface movement. The tank is certainly responding to the CO2, and runs at about a bubble per second in to the diffuser during the day (where the yeast is heated), and I turn the heater off at night, and it slows down the bubbles but they keep going. Not sure if that helped at all. Setting up a proper CO2 setup with the timer solenoid etc will cost $300+ where you may find (on a budget) that money is better spent on lighting and ferts. Also Hutt Pets has a 90x70x70 2nd hand tank for like 70 bucks or something around there, but you could get a brand new 2'x2'x2' (60cm cubed) for around $200-$250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbieBoy Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Hi Henry, Firstly, is the C02 controlled with a pH sensorand solenoid, or have you simply adjusted the flow to maintain a relatively stable pH? If so, how was this acheived and was it tricky? No sensor, just a solenoid to turn the gas off at night. pH sensors are really not necessary - more of an overpriced luxury item for the technophiles who like to see a number The fish and plants aren’t half as concerned about these details as we are. Its very easy to set the flow rate and once done, you can forget about it. I did find a digital pH meter reassuring and helpful initially to confirm I wasn’t overdoing anything but now I’m not nearly as concerned about pH fluctuations as I was in the early days. Just ensure your carbonate hardness is high enough to buffer a bit, 4-8 is good. Dunedin water is extremely soft so that’s one thing I do keep an eye on. I do have a VERY good needle valve to set the flow; its one of these... http://www.swagelok.com/shopping/produc ... part=B-SS4 ...makes it a lot easier to control things consistently, its mounted after the regulator. It has a vernier scales on the dial so that I can reset the flow to exactly where it was when the gas bottle gets refilled. Handy. If I had to recommend one ‘accessory’ over all others, it would be this valve. Did you have the tank custom made, or did you mange to find a 2'x2'x2' in a retail shop? I had the tank made by Redwood Aquatics in Christchurch who did a great job. I take comfort in the fact that its made out of all 10mm glass. It cost about $200. Transporting it home to Dunners in the back of the car was fun I just wish I had the carpentry skills to make a nice cover for it and to house the lighting. I keep meaning to have a go but... How is the Fluval internal working out? With a slightly higher load of biological matter with leaves and roots etc was considering a reasonably high flow rate, probably at least 1000lph, and most probably external to preserve the environment within the tank. The Fluval internal you see in the pic was there purely to drive the (then) CO2 reactor. Main tank filtering is carried out (now) by two canister filters, an Eheim 2224 and a Fluval 104 connected in series so the Fluval acts as a mechanical prefilter, like this – This way I can change all the floss in the Fluval in a matter of minutes but leave the Eheim alone to act as a biological filter. This has been working well for me. I do find the planted tank produces quite a bit of detritus and plant matter and requires good mechanical filtration to keep the water completely clear. I’m not using that particular CO2 reactor any more; I switched to a glass diffuser which was working great until I broke it . I like the glass diffusers but I’m going to try and get a plastic version, the glass ones are too fragile for me. I had the diffuser housed entirely inside the body of the Fluval internal so that the impellor was blowing out a mist of tiny CO2 bubbles and wafting them about the tank. This has been the most effective method I’ve found for gas exchange and the plants loved it. The extra circulation just below the water surface was helpful too; since I’ve taken out that internal pump, I’ve had a problem with algae overgrowing my Riccia because the water is too still. With a bit of current moving the Riccia about, algae was never a problem. I must get on to that... Water movement is important and discourages algae, still water creates problems under high light. Did you use laterite whe laying the substrate? And do you dose with fertiliser? No, no special substrate other than a fine gravel. While I’m sure laterite etc... is great for many plant species like swords and other primarily root feeders, I tend not to keep those, they get too damn big. I prefer grass plants myself and they just don’t require substrate ferts. Other ferts however, are crucial. I use include Seachem Flourish for trace elements, a fantastic product, Flourish Iron too, on occasion. For macro-ferts, I add KNO3 for nitrogen, KH2PO4 for phosphate, K2SO4 for potassium and MgSO4 for magnesium. How often is it necessary to trim plants etc? Distressingly often! After a good prune-out, I can go for about a month before it turns into a total jungle in there and I have to haul out handfuls. With stem plants, I just wrap groups of 5-6 stems together with some filter wool and shove the bases into a small cup which has a 1oz fishing weight in the bottom. They sink straight down but can’t root in the substrate (also allows groups of plants to be repositioned if desired). Then when I need to mow 3-4 weeks later, I just pull the whole lot up and replant the tops. Because the roots are confined inside the cups, they don’t drag up a whole mess of mulm and gunk with them, quick and clean (I try not to interfere with the gravel at all if I can avoid it, I don’t vacuum it either. I find trumpet snails do a magnificent job keeping it nicely rotovated and aerated). About every four-five months I have to severely cull the grasses back as they can start to look a bit tired and get root-bound. I replant the best of them and away they go again. No hurry in posting this information, your input and advice is greatly appreciated. No worries, always happy to talk about this stuff. For me, keeping the maintenance to a minimum is important and unfortunately, proper planted tanks require maintenance, simple as that. When regularly tended to, they are magnificent; when neglected, they quickly become an eyesore. The flipside of encouraging vigorous plant growth is that the plants grow vigorously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted July 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Thank you for this detailed response to my queries. Your descriptions, explanations and photos are excellent. I have a few further queries regarding your setup, and while I considered sending a private message I feel that your advice would definately benefit others who (like me) have a limited experience with planted setups and a desire to extend their knowledge. Again, if and when you are able to respond to these queries, your assistance would be greatly appreciated. Firstly, No sensor, just a solenoid to turn the gas off at night. I assume this is just on a timer working in the opposite cycle to your lights, to match C02 supply respiration cycle of the plants? If using a brewed C02 system, is a continuous supply of C02 during the night a significant problem? I like the glass diffusers but I’m going to try and get a plastic version, the glass ones are too fragile for me. I had the diffuser housed entirely inside the body of the Fluval internal so that the impellor was blowing out a mist of tiny CO2 bubbles and wafting them about the tank. What do glass diffusors look like, and how do they work? I am only familiar with the reactor type set up, where a C02 bubble slowly works its way through obstacles or a spiralled track against a flow of water, and so dissolves before being allowed to reach the surface. Also - where have you sourced your C02 equipment from, including the regulator and the valve that you mentioned. Other ferts however, are crucial. I use include Seachem Flourish for trace elements, a fantastic product, Flourish Iron too, on occasion. For macro-ferts, I add KNO3 for nitrogen, KH2PO4 for phosphate, K2SO4 for potassium and MgSO4 for magnesium. This is an impressive array.. by the looks of it you buy all the macro fertilisers generically from chemical suppliers? Is there an advantage to doing this over buying commercially prepared aquarium fertilisers? Also where do you buy these chemicals from? Also, with your lighting set up, where did you find the 55W 2' fluros? Have been keeping my eyes on lights available in LFS and also Mitre10 and SwitchedOnGardner, highest wattage 2' tubes I have seen is around 20W. ALternatives I was considering were a single 150W Metal Hallide, which obviously would be pricey, or a 130W 'Growlamp' from Switched on Gardner, which is a compact fluro, fits into a standard household screw fitting but has a much higher wattage then most compact fluros such as those purchased at the supermarket etc. Lastly I havent seen a heater? Is your Eheim Professional one of the heating models? If so, how is this going? Worth the extra expense? You mentioned in previous post about not going for root feeders in selecting plants.. does this mean that (like laterite or special substrates) that substrate heating is not important either? Once again, thank you for your time. Any thoughts or advice you can provide here Dubbie would be most appreciated. Thoughts from anyone else are also most welcome of course! Cheers, Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbieBoy Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 I have a few further queries regarding your setup, and while I considered sending a private message I feel that your advice would definately benefit others who (like me) have a limited experience with planted setups and a desire to extend their knowledge. Again, if and when you are able to respond to these queries, your assistance would be greatly appreciated. Not a problem, topic may need to be moved to the Aquatic Plants section tho... I assume this is just on a timer working in the opposite cycle to your lights, to match C02 supply respiration cycle of the plants? If using a brewed C02 system, is a continuous supply of C02 during the night a significant problem? I don’t believe so, not if the tank isn’t overstocked etc... I use the solenoid primarily to save gas as CO2 release at night is just wasteful as it can’t be utilised by the plants. I don’t think yeast generated CO2 would be produced in sufficient volume to be harmful but it depends on many variables including plant and fish volume, tank size, presence or absence of additional aeration. What do glass diffusors look like, and how do they work? I am only familiar with the reactor type set up, where a C02 bubble slowly works its way through obstacles or a spiralled track against a flow of water, and so dissolves before being allowed to reach the surface. Also - where have you sourced your C02 equipment from, including the regulator and the valve that you mentioned. Glass diffusers look like this... Gas is squeezed out through a sintered glass/ceramic disk which results in very fine bubbles. Due to the high ratio of surface area to volume, these tiny bubbles dissolve gas very effectively. The other factor associated with these diffusers is that, when wafted about in the water column, CO2 gas bubbles can come into direct contact with the stomata on the surface of leaves and this gets the gas into the plant tissue orders of magnitude more efficiently compared to CO2 dissolved in water. At least that’s the theory, I think its debatable as to whether this makes any difference. I just think they’re neat. These diffusers need a fair bit of pressure to work and so generally not recommended for yeast generated CO2 production. Sourcing my CO2 gear was discussed previously here... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/previo ... sc&start=0 This is an impressive array.. by the looks of it you buy all the macro fertilisers generically from chemical suppliers? Is there an advantage to doing this over buying commercially prepared aquarium fertilisers? Also where do you buy these chemicals from? Macro ferts are best sourced from horticultural suppliers, thay are after all, just cheap chemicals. ‘Macro ferts’ really refer to the big three plant requirements, N, P & K (nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium). Commercially prepared plant ferts out of a bottle typically don’t contain these ingredients in any quantity as its presumed that fish waste will provide. Commercial preparations also tend to specifically exclude phosphorus as it has in the past been linked to algal outbreaks (although it is still a crucial plant requirement and needs to be present in a true planted tank; I think while excess phosphorus may contribute to algal growth in regular aquaria, entirely different rules apply to heavily planted setups). Its important to distinguish between macro and trace ferts too, trace elements are also important and best added from a commercial preparation, such as Flourish. Sourcing macros was discussed here... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/macron ... html#71140 and here... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/macron ... html#71140 Also, with your lighting set up, where did you find the 55W 2' fluros? Have been keeping my eyes on lights available in LFS and also Mitre10 and SwitchedOnGardner, highest wattage 2' tubes I have seen is around 20W. ALternatives I was considering were a single 150W Metal Hallide, which obviously would be pricey, or a 130W 'Growlamp' from Switched on Gardner, which is a compact fluro, fits into a standard household screw fitting but has a much higher wattage then most compact fluros such as those purchased at the supermarket etc. Those are not standard flourescent tubes, they are compact flourescents – the tube doubles back on itself in a U-shape. They are available from Rexel in a variety of colour temps. I got all my lighting equipemt from www.ahsupply.com, primarily because of their reflectors, which are excellent. Replacement bulbs are available locally. Lastly I havent seen a heater? Is your Eheim Professional one of the heating models? If so, how is this going? Worth the extra expense? You mentioned in previous post about not going for root feeders in selecting plants.. does this mean that (like laterite or special substrates) that substrate heating is not important either? I have a standard heaterstat tucked away in a corner, nothing glam, does its job. I don’t think the thermofilters are worth the expense as heaters can and do fail and it’d be a lot cheaper to replace a bog standard heaterstat than an Eheim thermofilter I believe the current thinking is that substrate heating has little observable benefit and that these cables are one of the least useful pieces of equipment marketed at planted tanks. I personally wouldn’t bother with one. Avoiding big hungry root feeders is just my personal choice; your tastes will be different. People report great results using laterite and similar substrates for growing different species esp. sword plants. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Hi Im also starting a planted tank ATM so have been reading this thread through thouroughly Anyway, I was just wondering if you measure the levels of phosphate, potassium, magnesium and nitrogen in your tank?? also, how do you dose them?? do you measure specific amounts and put it in or just do it until the levels are correct?? For macro-ferts, I add KNO3 for nitrogen, KH2PO4 for phosphate, K2SO4 for potassium and MgSO4 for magnesium. I am keen to get these macro-ferts for my tank, along with flourish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbieBoy Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Hey evil, Sadly its not possible to precisely measure these compounds without complicated chemistry. The idea is more to calculate what you would like your final concentrations to be and to dose according to that. Regular water changes prevent a gradual buildup over time. Have a look here, two very useful links on how to calculate how much of different macros to add... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/how-mu ... html#72230 The 'fertilator' in the second link is extremely useful. Actual dosing is very easy, just tip it in there - these compounds dissolve very quickly and don't affect the fish themselves. For eg, in my case, after a, say, 30-40% water change, I would typically add, (roughly ), half a teaspoon of KNO3 powder (for nitrogen), I think a third of a teaspoon of K2SO4 (for potassium, although I wouldn't add potassium every time, its rarely deficient), half a teaspoon of MgSO4 (for magnesium) and 'a good pinch', maybe one eighth of a teaspoon of KH2PO4 (for phosphorus) and a 5ml squirt of Flourish for good measure. My tank is about 200l. The water changes are important obviously, I get away with once every 4-6 weeks and this one should probably be doing anyway as part of good tank maintainance. I try not to get too hung up on the numbers; its not rocket science and needn't be terribly precise. I'm looking to supply sufficient nutrients that the plants have ready access to it, and then a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Thank you for all this - once again very thorough and informative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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