Feelers Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 The 30 to 0 is VERY significant stastically - but there are loads of factors involved, so its probably something other than just coral growth playing a part in that equation. My guess would be that maybe 80% or more of people like the look of sand - and since TOTM is voted for (isnt it?) a BB tank would be hard pressed to win agaisnt those odds - especially with many people activly disliking "yuk" BB, as opposed to BB entheusiasts who are generally indifferent to DSBs. I see places like that coral farm in the states - with their horendous bioload and huge sandbeds - and everything looked great. When I first started reading up on reef tanks I though DSB's were a relic from the UG filter days, but the more I see it seems they can do wonders for some people, and perhaps coming back into fashion after the "tank meltdown" scenario scared people off in droves. The intricacies of reef-keeping fashion, 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 The 30 to 0 is VERY significant stastically - but there are loads of factors involved, so its probably something other than just coral growth playing a part in that equation. How so? What proportion of BB to sand tanks are there? 1:100 1:200 ? TOTM isn't voted for. It's up to the editor of RK to chose it. I see places like that coral farm in the states - with their horendous bioload and huge sandbeds - and everything looked great. When I first started reading up on reef tanks I though DSB's were a relic from the UG filter days, but the more I see it seems they can do wonders for some people, and perhaps coming back into fashion after the "tank meltdown" scenario scared people off in droves. Did you see the algae there too? If you know what sand beds do in nature, then it comes as no surprise why people have success, but other have problems. Also it's more than just a "tank meltdown" reason behind not having sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 and they probably choose them because they look most "natural" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 its pushing the definition of plankton to include the muck stirred up in a aquariums sand bed. yes it may contain pods, worms, bacteria, but plankton of the types that sps corals can or would consume.?? THEY WILL CONSUME IT the majority of corals (sps) we keep in our tanks are gain the majority (98%) of there food from the algae theykeep within and sharing of the nutrients that they produce. WRONG, WHY DO THEY HAVE POLYPS THEN? Don't get me wrong Cracker, i know you have a very nice tank and your way of keeping them is as good as any, but it's not the only way to keep healthy corals, fish etc, nor, as was the initial point, give better colours in sps corals than any other way. WHATS NOT THE ONLY WAY? I NEVER STATED A WAY. "AS GOOD AS ANY"......YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN MY TANK. So many people don't learn on this forum it blows me away. Too many people are closed minded and too proud for there own good and stubborn. I have learned tonnes of information on this site and I have practiced and tried most things suggested. That is how you learn the best methods. If someone has success with BB, great. Yes there are many ways to have a successful reef. But skill, moderation, balance and common sense and open mindedness is a HUGE factor and some ways ARE NOT as good as others. If you had a look closely at my sandbed, (And PIES and ALOIS' sandbeds for that matter), you would change your mind as you would see the benefits. My sandbed has matured. At first it was nothing and now it is a system on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 And yes I do believe the crap that comes out of the sandbed contributes to colours in corals, (Along with other things). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Well, I'm like Layton, used to use sand, then fell under Bombers influence and became a BB fan. And there's good reasons for that. BUT, after all the theorising is done, the bottom line to me is that the proof of a method is in the pudding. I used to think I had pretty good corals but starting to think again I'm seeing better over and over, in other peoples tanks with sand. Also many of the real stunning tanks we see pics of have sand, even DSB's, yet fantastic acros. There is still much to learn, IMO, about how this all ties together. NOW WASP IS A MAN WHO LEARNS AND LISTENS AND IS OPEN MINDED LIKE MYSELF, THE PROOF IS IN HIS STATEMENT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 WASP has taught me many ways in this hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Whose to say polyps primary function is as a mouth for catching food? Why is there such a difference in polyp size amongst different corals? It they were all used primarily for catching food, why did smaller polyps evolve? And why do larger polyps still exist? Just something to think about. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjec ... tout.shtml This is just one site I found in 2 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 cracker, don't get carried away. I have learnt alot from this forum, and alot of others, I have also tried alot of differnt ways over a number of years, I've keep marine tanks for over 25 years. I certainly am not too proud to learn or close minded by any means, or convinced that any way is better than any other. I've seen photos of your tank, and comments from others, i seen reefs tank a number of times, and pictures of pies and they are all nice tanks, conciderably better than my own. Its just a discussion, the reason why we have this board is to discuss, and it was IMO a good discussion, was anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 fair enough Mod and Cracker, I'd love to see your tank and talk to you about it. Shawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 What do most animals use their mouths for most of the time? How much tissue mass do SPS (stoney, mostly autotrophic corals) corals have? How much food do they need to sustain this tissue mass, and what sources are there for it? Just some more things to ponder. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 No worries puttputt. Layton, Not for talking!! Maybe they whisper.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 If you have seen crackers tank in person you would know he has nothing to prove!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 What cracker is doing he is doing very very well!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Plus his tank looks beautiful and natural!! a slice of heaven!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 hmmm, i think we get the point fay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Peace out Dudes! Love the hobby, love you all! What kinda clinched it for me was I gave Cracker a frag of a nice sps coral I got. Went back 2 or 3 months later, and WHOA!! The frag has awesome colours, huge polyp extension, and ( worst of all ), is nearly as big as the mother coral back in my tank! Main difference I can see is caused by the sand in his tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 some creative logic there Fay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Logic is as useful as the particular person who put it together. End of the day, proof of a method is in the pudding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Sorry guys if I am coming across arogant of late....Having MASSIVE personal issues with the EX and my children. Thanks Fay!! Chim...I noticed your font was rather small!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 This site is full of arrogant shytes! :lol: :lol: That's why we're here. :lol: :lol: Anyhow, I don't see anything wrong with having pride in the achievement of a great tank, as most people here do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 What kinda clinched it for me was I gave Cracker a frag of a nice sps coral I got. Went back 2 or 3 months later, and WHOA!! The frag has awesome colours, huge polyp extension, and ( worst of all ), is nearly as big as the mother coral back in my tank! yeah and i'd imagine the same thing will happen with the frag i gave him! which reminds me - cracker got any progress pic's of the nice blue tipped acro i gave ya? be good if you can take a pic each week for the next 2 months. Main difference I can see is caused by the sand in his tank. main difference i see is consistant dosing = stable tank parameters plus amino acids etc may help! on the contrary, i still think the sand is causing the issues in my tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Mmmm....Its still trying to shake off the zeovit!!! I'd say she'll start cranking in the next couple of weeks. I'll post pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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