Control Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 There has been no abuse from anyone here we are trying to get you out of a bad situation. Anemonies are amazing animals and they can live in very difficult conditions when they are in tidal pools, some are easy to keep and some aren't there is alot of info in the web on them. I don't think it's fear to blame the shops, they shouldn't have to give people lectures whenever someone buys something. The costomer should ask what is required to keep them before they buy. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Control Yea right thats a laugh, you have to get someone that knows what they are talking about at the shops first. And bye the way when a started with my reef I didn't have a computer, which makes it very hard to search the web!! When I purchased my Anemone I was not advised it had a low survial rate and any special needs. Like I said I have 5 Anemones plus one baby I didn't count and 2 I gave away from splits, so I think I know what I am doing. We are talking about one type of Anemone here and unfortunately one that is hard to keep most are easy in my experience. So maybe you would like to get off your high horse and suggest how I might help my Anemone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 I don't think it's fear to blame the shops, they shouldn't have to give people lectures whenever someone buys something. The costomer should ask what is required to keep them before they buy. Aaron Aaron, sorry mate - i cannot agree with you there. Its the shops who are responsible for bringing these things in via the wholesalers. And although the hobbyist should research prior to purchase, a significant responsibility MUST lay with the retailer. I personally feel that far greater interest should be taken on the part of the LFS. Whilst some do, most don't. My LFS guy back home wouldn't even let me buy the things he knew i couldn't keep. Knowing I had only been keeping marines for 3 months, no end of cajoling would get that powder blue out of him, lol. Cantankerous (sp?) old bugger, but he knew his stuff, and I thank him for it. raeh1 - dude, don't get downcast by comments you may not want to hear. Ultimately a lot of the people on here have been in the hobby for years and whilst things may sound a little harsh, it is usually said with not only your best interests, but quite rightly the best interests of the animals we are privileged to look after. We are but their guardians and owe them the best possible environment. Not just best possible, but correct also. Good luck though, and i look forward to seeing some pics of a healthy anemone soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Thats right don't blame the customer: If these Anemones have no chance in a reef tank why are they being taken off the reef!!! Why? Because there is money it it. We pull hundreds of thousands of tons of fish from the ocean to kill and eat, whats a few anemones if someone can make a buck. Chance of survival is not a factor considered, can I sell it is. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Well on a happier note this ones looking a little better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Aaron, sorry mate - i cannot agree with you there. Its the shops who are responsible for bringing these things in via the wholesalers. And although the hobbyist should research prior to purchase, a significant responsibility MUST lay with the retailer. I personally feel that far greater interest should be taken on the part of the LFS. Whilst some do, most don't. My LFS guy back home wouldn't even let me buy the things he knew i couldn't keep. Knowing I had only been keeping marines for 3 months, no end of cajoling would get that powder blue out of him, lol. Cantankerous (sp?) old bugger, but he knew his stuff, and I thank him for it. Yeah I agree. Problem is they hop in their car and drive to a store that will sell them a fish and not hassle them about it. In my experience wholesalers pass on very little/no information about the fish they sell. If you don't ask, they don't tell. I generally ask people what they have in their tanks and how big they are. But if it's a bad day....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Oh Fay, nice pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Better Fay? Its magnificent ! Im not good with anemone identification yet - could prob tell a Het. Magnifica and a bubble tip, but whats that? I would say a malu but not sure. Where has it decided to go in the tank? Whats the lighting above it and what kind of flow has it chosen? How big is it? Stunning example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Yeah I agree. Problem is they hop in their car and drive to a store that will sell them a fish and not hassle them about it. In my experience wholesalers pass on very little/no information about the fish they sell. If you don't ask, they don't tell. I generally ask people what they have in their tanks and how big they are. But if it's a bad day....... Michael - yep, like i said, some are good and some are bad. I could have gone down the road and bought that powder blue somewhere else too i guess. But that is transferring responsibility entirely to me, and fair goes. Its a bit of a catch 22. I am sure the smaller owner-run stores are much better than the likes of larger "supermarket" retailers. Having said that, sometimes if you get a good staff member who is genuinely interested in their job that makes a big difference too. The times I stood by hearing "Yeh, erm, take the tank home, clean the gravel and fill it in with water, oh and chuck some of this in it too. Then when youve got your filter hooked up and the water is cleared come back and we'll sort some fish for you. If you get it done by 4 you should be alright to stick some in tonight - we are open till 6" spouted out of a supermarket style employees lips !!! Happens a lot less in the smaller places aye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raeh1 Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Fay that pic of the aneome is amazing. Here's hoping my one will do the same. They do look similar although my ones still hidding. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 It was under halides in the big tank, but for the last 6months or so under t5's and powercompacks. I'm not sure what knocked it back, I put it down to over use of carbon, but I was doing a few different changes at the time so hard to tell. It sits on the top of it's rock never moved since the day I got it apart from me moving rock and all to new tank. It has moderate to strong flow from small tunze stream in a .600x.600x.600tank It's about the size of a dinner plate which is about half the size it use to be I feed it with whitebait (Port Waikato Whitebait comes free to me) raeh1If you make a trip up from Hamilton I can give you some to keep you going for a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Fay what type is it? when you say dinner plate - u mean a big plate not sideplate? blimey ! it looks smaller in the pic. still looks good. mmmmmm whitebait - coated in flour and shallow fried, feed me seymour ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Fritter are better small dinner plate but bigger than side plate not sure what it is will put it on reef central and see what they come up with. If I get time today will take some pics of the others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 sweeeeeet 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 I agree that the shops should make sure you are aware of the basic requirements for what they are selling, I just don't beleave they should have to go any further than that. They're there to sell a product, they're not there to teach marine biollogy and shouldn't be expected to. You don't go and buy a car and then expect them to give you a mechanic's apprentiship. Aaron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 I think we are talking degree here arent we? As you say, they SHOULD make people aware of general requirements - and that is all we are really saying too. The LFS should (as a minimum) ensure that the purchaser is aware of the lighting, flow and water parameter requirements of the anemone. In the same way, and to use your analogy, I would consider it a Car Dealer's responsibility to ensure that if selling a V8 to a 17 year old or 85 year old, that they are made aware that it is a powerful vehicle which requires a degree of skill and ability to drive safely. To say that a retailer purely exists to sell is one of the reasons that the "supermarket" style retailers believe it is acceptable to employ youngsters with no training and little enthusiasm - their pure interest being the cash at the end of the week to fund their own hobbies. Im not blaming the employee here either (and Im not saying they are all the same) - its the employers' responsibility. But what i am saying is its the the CONSUMER who suffers if incorrect or no advice is given. And in the case of anemone's and fish, it is the LIVE ANIMAL which suffers too. When live animals are concerned, there HAS to be a greater degree of responsibility. Especially when the experience of the purchaser was unknown. Im sure you would agree with that Aaron ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 I agree that the shops should make sure you are aware of the basic requirements for what they are selling, I just don't beleave they should have to go any further than that. They're there to sell a product, they're not there to teach marine biollogy and shouldn't be expected to. You don't go and buy a car and then expect them to give you a mechanic's apprentiship. Aaron. Car analogy is poor at best, what about dogs or cats? What if pet stores were selling dogs or cats that had a less than 90% chance of survival, and that 90% slowly starved to death or dies over months from slow poisoning. Now if people were buying dogs or cats that died in this mannor because the pet-stores were not correctly informing their customers on the right way to care for these animals, you are saying that would be solely the responsibility of the owners? Would the customer have brought these animals if they knew their survival rates and the fact that they would be treated with contempt. These animals are in our care, and I am glad the 'hard ones' are around, so the more advanced and responsible pet owners can try to keep them. However I do get annoyed by stories like this, when someone is buying an animal, only to subject it to poor environment, ultimatly dooming it to a slow and painfull death. But thats just my opnion, and I am not pointing the finger or blaming anyone (customer, wholesaler, importer, exporter). But its food for through all the same. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Pomereef I think we are talking degree here arent we? As you say, they SHOULD make people aware of general requirements Exactly In the same way, and to use your analogy, I would consider it a Car Dealer's responsibility to ensure that if selling a V8 to a 17 year old or 85 year old, that they are made aware that it is a powerful vehicle which requires a degree of skill and ability to drive safely. An 85 year old would most likely know. A 17 year old wouldn't care, wouldn't listen and would end up with the car being impouned with loss of liceince regardless of what the dealer said. The simple solussion is to not support shops that don't support you and the way you want to be treated. Unfortunately some people don't have allot of choice. Car analogy is poor at best Probably. What if pet stores were selling dogs or cats that had a less than 90% chance of survival, and that 90% slowly starved to death or dies over months from slow poisoning. I think that would be covered by this. the shops should make sure you are aware of the basic requirements for what they are selling Unfortunately they only have to do what comsumer law requires them too. This is where the changes need to be made in this country. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 An 85 year old would most likely know. A 17 year old wouldn't care, wouldn't listen and would end up with the car being impouned with loss of liceince regardless of what the dealer said. The simple solussion is to not support shops that don't support you and the way you want to be treated. Unfortunately some people don't have allot of choice. The first part of this answer is based on assumption. Which as they said in Priscilla, is the mother of all **** ups. You may get a little old lady who just likes the look of that Commodore SS and DOESNT know. You may get a responsible 17 year old who DOES care. But it still boils down to not making assumptions. The LFS should always assume a person knows little or nothing until they establish otherwise. The second part - well, beginners don't have the luxury of knowing whether the LFS is helping them or not, because by their nature, they lack experience. That is why we MUST be able to rely on advice and responsibility. The LAW? In the main is an ass and in retail is particularly ambiguous. Any retailer who hides behind the law to mask his own responsibility deserves to go bankrupt (IMHO). Whatever the scenario or analogy it still boils down to responsibility. And thats what is referred to as "added value". If LFS's offer added value they will gain the respect and loyalty of their customers. Hell, some of those customers may even think twice about saving $50 on something off the internet if they receive impeccable service and advice in other aspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 If a dealer does not tell you what is requied to keep them and they die you do have comeback in small claims. If they give misinformation, you have comeback in small claims You would be supprised at what they can be held responsable for, most of them don't know themselve's. The basics of the Comsumer Garunties Act is online. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 I think we are agreed that the LFS has a degree of responsibility to ensure the consumer is aware of the correct conditions to provide a healthy environment for living organisms (in this case anemones) then. Now how about some more nice pics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raeh1 Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 I am not mad with the retailer who sold me the anenome. As he is reasonably new to retailing marine products. I did tell him for future reference about the type of anenome. He is learning as we all are about these types of marine animals all the time. Best beat is when people read about aneomes, on the net they find out important information like what we have been talking about. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 If a dealer does not tell you what is requied to keep them and they die you do have comeback in small claims. If they give misinformation, you have comeback in small claims You would be supprised at what they can be held responsable for, most of them don't know themselve's. The basics of the Comsumer Garunties Act is online true but completely irrelevant. it's a living creature, even if it only lives in a tank - it should never get to this in the first place - both for the 'creatures' wellbeing (and from a business sense, the customers wallet) so how is it tonight? getting better or heading downhill? make sure you keep an eye out, if it dies it will stink and pollute your tank pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Nothing to do with fish, but I know a guy that sold a budgie and cage set up once. Everything you could need. Great sale. Two weeks later the buyer comes back and says the budgie die. Turns out it starved to death. The one thing he forgot to sell him was seed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 The answer came back as H Crispa for those wanting to know the name of my anemone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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