Rob2904 Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Hi I am new to keeping Africans and have a female Demasoni holding, she has been holding for 2 weeks now and I have had a go at stripping her. She has more than 8 fry in her mouth with the yoke sack still attatched. I stripped her but when 8 fry(still more left in her mouth) came out with the yoke still there I put mum back in the container with them and she gobbled them back up. She is now in a clear container with an air stone floating in the main tank in the hope she will not loose her place in the tank. My question is, would the fry survive in the wriggler stage now with the yoke? They were (the 8 I saw) swimming about but the yoke was still quite large in comparison to the fry. Or would it pay to leave her as she is in the container for another week? I have turned up the heater to 27deg from 24 as I have read being a bit warmer could speed things up? or am I screwing it up :dunno: Cheers Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Congrats on the spawning The fry should be ok with some egg sack the trick is to get them into a smaller tank or breeding tank and keep them moving (google DIY tumbler if you want to make something really fancy). The less developed they are the less likely they are to survive and this is where experience comes into it and you realise the best ways to tumble them and how likely they are to survive. Generally I open the fishes mouth and if it is still really white in there (lots of egg sacks) then I leave them alone, if it is quite dark (less egg sacks) I strip them. Usually I can see into their mouths enough by observing the fish swimming around in the tank and also judge how far along they are by their appearance (skinny fish, starting to swim around with the others and look at food really dark bucal cavity means the fish is needing stripping). I would leave her another week and try again you don't do any harm in doing this. With dems it is allot easier to strip them a bit underdeveloped, they are really hard to strip and the fry swim back in allot easier when they are fully developed so it is a weigh up. I also always leave the fish to hold full term and spit (into the tank generally but if they are important fry I will let the female spit in another tank) the first few times. This allows the fish to learn how to hold and there is also stuff all gain in stripping a small female and getting 5 fry. There is some discussion on if stripping fish is a good idea at all, the fish have evolved to mouth brood and if we keep stripping them early and tumbling them there is some belief we may eventually breed this habbit of not holding fry into the the fish and end up with a whole lot of fish that don't hold successfully. I am not too sure if I believe this theory, but I do know that leaving them the first few batches and letting them learn to hold makes things far easier for you in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2904 Posted September 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Hey Ryan Cheers for your reply. She is fairly thin on it and she was swimming around with the other fish and I did see her a few times sneak in a small amound of food in her mouth, even with it full of eggs. The 8 or so I have seen in the holding container when i did strip her looked like little tadpoles, white with tiny stripes and a big yellow yoke looking thing on their bellys. they swam around quite well but if I was to strip them now I do think I would need to make a tumbler. I think there would be about 10 or so give or take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishhead Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Hi Robe, I agree with Ryan. Also I would recommand you to leave her holding for at least one more week. another two to be safe... Temp is the key for how FAST the fry get mature. You did right thing to raise Temp from 24 to 27. I was have my powder blue holding for 4 weeks under temp 23 ~ 24 and fry still with big yoke with them. Ryan came in suggest to leave her another one or two weeks for safe. But I strip them out on week 5. They still with yoke on them. 21 of them end up non survived. But female fish get back to colony fine. What a tragedy... So I pay enough patient on my yellow and they comes out fine with out yoke on their body. I think you just need give it a bit more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2904 Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Cheers mate I will see how she goes. At the end of the day I am sure she will do it all over again :slfg: Thanks for the good advice guys, it is a great resource this forum to get advice from people who know what they are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hi Robe, I agree with Ryan. Also I would recommand you to leave her holding for at least one more week. another two to be safe... Temp is the key for how FAST the fry get mature. You did right thing to raise Temp from 24 to 27. I was have my powder blue holding for 4 weeks under temp 23 ~ 24 and fry still with big yoke with them. Ryan came in suggest to leave her another one or two weeks for safe. But I strip them out on week 5. They still with yoke on them. 21 of them end up non survived. But female fish get back to colony fine. What a tragedy... So I pay enough patient on my yellow and they comes out fine with out yoke on their body. I think you just need give it a bit more time. I still find that powder blue very very odd that she was holding for 5 weeks and the fry still had egg sacks and then didn't survive, mine are usually fully free swimming between 2 and 3 weeks so for 5 weeks would expect a temp around 20C and then they should still have survived.. Cheers mate I will see how she goes. At the end of the day I am sure she will do it all over again :slfg: Thanks for the good advice guys, it is a great resource this forum to get advice from people who know what they are talking about. No worries only too happy to help Make sure you update us on how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2904 Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hey guys Well patients is not a vertue I hold unfortunately, so I googled egg tumblers as Ryan said and decided to have a crack at one and strip the little demasoni and see how I got on. Not sure if I got it right but here is a couple of pics of it. http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/Rob2904/RobsPhonepics028.jpg http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/Rob2904/RobsPhonepics026.jpg Excuse the poor quality photos if it even worked as I had to use my phone to take them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 They look like they are developed enough to survive if they are kept moving, generally as long as they are swimming they are good, if they are having to lie around then they are more hit and miss but still can be tumbled. The only issue with your tumber is if you have it in a tank with other bigger fish they will try and suck the fry through the netting as they attempt to eat them. This results in the fish getting sucked against the netting and killed, if you want to stick the tumbler in a tank with bigger fish it pays to stick another chamber with netting under the one with the fish in it so the fish cannot suck against the one with the fish in it (if that makes any sense?). It is really hard to tell from your pics but what did you make the tumblers out of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2904 Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Here is a pic of my tank. I built the tank and made all the rocks and background myself using dry clay and concrete. It is aprox 160L and running an Aqua one cf1200. It has 5 Demasoni (hope another 6 to come lol) about 8 Yellow labs and 8 Cynotilpia afra 5 Rustys and a couple of shellies. This is was my trial tank with my DIY rocks ect, and I want to do the same on a larger scale in a 3-400L tank. Most of the rocks are hollow facing the back of the tank to add more places for the fish to hide ect.. but still giving the look of fairly large rocks from the front. In my planned bigger tank the background rocks will also be hollow and filled with filter midia with a few power heads pumping water through them to add to the filtration as I have found the Malawi's to be rather messy little buggers lol. I have also been adding a little bit of ferts I use in my planted tank to help add to my Algae for them to graze on. Hope you like it? http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/Rob2904/RobsPhonepics030.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2904 Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 My tumbler is an empty yeast jar, an old t-shirt and an air stone lol. I drilled a hole in the top for my air stone to fit into and drilled holes in the lid (now at the bottom end) put a piece of air tube inside the lid to keep the T-shirt material (my netting) off of the lid so it could move up and down with the water flow and cut just slice holes in the top (bottom of the plastic jar) with a craft knife to let the air out. It looks to be doing the same job as some of the ones I looked at online. Time will tell aye :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishhead Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 I still find that powder blue very very odd that she was holding for 5 weeks and the fry still had egg sacks and then didn't survive, mine are usually fully free swimming between 2 and 3 weeks so for 5 weeks would expect a temp around 20C and then they should still have survived.. No worries only too happy to help Make sure you update us on how you get on. Yep...I think the temp could be lower than 23C... I learned a lesson from that. My poor blue babies... Now the temp is right at 27C. Hope my next batch will survive. Rob...Nice setup and effort on DIY your back ground :happy2: I got a new tank setup to work on and still trying to find time to do a DIY POLY background for it. My first try.... Any hint for background DIY works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2904 Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 I got a new tank setup to work on and still trying to find time to do a DIY POLY background for it. My first try.... Any hint for background DIY works? I got some dry clay from a landscape supply place and mixed it with portland cement at about a ratio of 7 clay to 1 cement and covered a rough shape of poly and when it was almost dry wet one of those green dishwashing scrubing cloths and dabbed it on to give texture. Some didnt have enought weight to make it sink so put it on thick. I just stuck it straight onto the glass and it sticks really well. for hollow rocks I just dug out the poly. I know acitone will disolve the poly really well but not sure if residue will be safe for fish. The cement will raise your ph up well into the 8s but it is all good for my africans and over time it comes down a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishhead Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Sweet... Im going to give it a try :nilly: :nilly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2904 Posted September 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Sweet mate its easy. Just wear rubber gloves when you do the concrete can burn your skin and will dry out your hands real bad. Good luck mate :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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