Tropheus possible bloat issue

[Simian]

I have a colony of Ikolas almost a year old, feed exclusively NLS, never had any issues, but have lost 2 fish in three days, no signs of bloating, tested all parameters they are all fine.

I now have a smaller fish hanging on his own, not looking flash, with very fine white stringy poo.

There is a lot of breeding action going on at the moment, perhaps its stress bringing it on but I suspect Bloat.

Big question is how can I sort this out and fast, we lack many of the medications I read about so need a NZ Version.

Halp

[Navarre]

Turn the heat up

do a water change with like temp water

dont feed tank

see how it goes

HTH

but some times there is no turning back

[smidey]

the first thing i would do is stop feeding & do a water change as Nav has said. if things are ok for a couple of days start feeding again. variety i believe is the key to feeding, i feed shelled peas, sera granugreen, sushi wrap & jbl novo rift. that might be worth considering

[Simian]

Thanks guys, what about isolation? I am worried that it will spread but am also worried that catching them will cause more stress

[smidey]

i would think that it would be too late to isolate, fish hide their weakness until it is absolutely the latest point. i guess it can't hurt, give it a go.

[ryanjury]

I would be treating their food with metro as well.. Isolate and treat the water for any fish that is not eating, at this stage I wouldn't be worried about stressing them, yes it is good to avoid but in this case they may well die if you don't do anything.

The major issue with bloat is noone knows what causes it really, yes they know it is the bacteria in the gut and they know it is brought on by stress and tropheus are more susceptible to it. Diet is one of the "stressors" we can control and you are feeding them the best thing but sometimes other stresses occur, in your case it could be the breeding.. What size tank do you have them in? Or it could be something random like an ammonia spike that you didn't see or test for it is hard to say. Either way it doesn't matter but this is why I have seen it recommended that every tropheus keeper should have metro on hand to start medicating the second they notice a fish hiding to hopefully knock it in the bud.

[Simian]

Thanks Ryan

I need to track some metro down, my tank is a big 5 footer and am running a sump + 2 good sized canisters, so water quality is pretty good, I have Brichardi breeding and my trophs are really getting active as they grow on so it could be the smaller males getting bullied, but there is no visible damage to any fish. I have isolated the worst fish in the sump and ceased feeding. I dosed with levamisole and prazi, so that should take care of any parasites until I can get some Metro.

Owen

[ryanjury]

Levamisole and prazi will do nothing for the bugs that are attributed to causing bloat both of them are anti-parasite type things when the bug is a bacteria that lives in the fish guts so you need something that kills the right sort of bacteria.

It is a hard one tank is big enough, with plenty of filtration etc so water quality shouldn't have cause it.

[Simian]

I lost 3 total, got some metro from friendly local vet, treating food for 5 day course 2x daily, with plenty of water changes.

No others look infected.... settled down... I hope, all 3 were small I suspect issues with the breeding aggression sparked it.

Stripped my biggest female Ikola got 3 eggs and have them in a tumbler, hopefully nett loss zero.

Thanks for the help

Owen

[Davd-lw]

This is wot I found frm the other site:

http://trophs.com/forums/lofiversion/in ... /t240.html

"........I have this theory going (and it is only a theory ) that bloat results from a disruption of normal intestinal motili (motion) resulting in the disruption of healthy normal intestinal flora.

The purpose of intestinal motility is to produce a constant peristalsis which keeps the intestinal flora in check, clearing it out and preventing overgrowth of nasty/bad bacteria/parasites/protozoa.

The things that i believe slow intestinal motility(IM) (not in any order of importance) are:

- stress/aggression causing increase in fight/flight response (increase in sympathetic nervous system activity) --> decreased intestinal motility.

- any poorly digested proteins/fats in foods we feed them can slow IM.

- introduction of new fish including wildcaughts or dither fish that harbour nasty parasites like spironucleus....these cause a build up of pathogens that aren't cleared by IM and eventually cause slowing of IM and intestinal mucosal breakdown --> spread to blood stream --> systemic infection or dropsy.

- hormones released as a stress response or during holding of eggs which may reduce IM.

- genetic defect in the intestinal peristalsis making it more sluggish than usual.

- fasting for long periods during shipping or in holding females can potentially result in slowing of intestinal motility.

-actual mechanical obstruction of the intestines - bowel obstruction.

Obviously anything that reduces the fish's immune system can reduce the intestinal and systemic defense systems allowing infection to spread to the blood stream.

So the aim of preventing bloat is to try to maintain intestinal health, the tropheus' natural defence against bloat..

I know there are a lot of other factors that can cause bloat such as poor water conditions with unstable pH, high nitrates/nitrites and ammonia.....but we can hopefully control these factors a lot better and i am sure u have covered this with your diligent maintenance regimes.

I agree with Matt that u should stop giving treats of mysis shrimp....with NLS, they are getting all the nutrients they need and therefore don't need any "treats".

How much do you actually feed your fish with NLS....we were told by RD that one teaspoon contains 1600 pellets...so it is very easy to overfeed your fish. I feed my 18 fish 3 pinches (around 120 pellets per pinch) twice daily.

Also a fasting day is not recommended since this will risk slowing the intestinal motility....that is why tropheus feed all day, not only to meet nutritional requirements but to maintain healthy bowel movements and therefore bowel flora. However, I acknowledge that fish in preparation from shipping go without food for 24-72 hours to try to minimise waste production but is this part of the trigger for bloat in shipped fish?

I hope this all makes sense!

And please don't give up on keeping tropheus.."