Nano sump design help

[breakaway]

Hi,

Im setting up a nano reef, and I'm setting up a small sump too. The size of the sump is 180L x 240W x 300H. Volume of approx 10L. The reason it's small is because it has to fit neatly into the cabinet below the display tank. The total water volume including sump is around 35-40L after adding liverock.

For now, I need help with what I actually have to put into the sump. So far, I've got:

1. Heater

2. Skimmer (Not atm, but in the future)

What else is needed? What sort of substrate (if any)? Which plant should I grow in there to take care of nitrite? How much area is needed for these plants?

Any help appreciated!

[suphew]

You have lots of choices depending on what you want to do, but as a start I would just use it for phosphate remover and maybe carbon. It's too small to use as a deep sand bed, so I wouldn't add any sand at all.

[Morcs]

what sort of algaes are available in NZ for nitrate absorbtion? i know in the states they mention macro algae a lot. if can get it, stick a wee light over the sump, and grow algae

[breakaway]

Here's what I drew up - this is an initial draft. Can you guys see any reason why this setup is flawed at all?

High resolution image: http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5043/sump.png

Notes:

1. *IMPORTANT: Is this setup going to be quiet? If not, how do I make it quiet?

2. I'm not yet sure what to put in the 'Initial Compartment'. I guess in a freshwater setup you'd put bio balls right, what's the saltwater equivalent?

3. Have placed heater and UV filter (Have one lying around) In the 'final' compartment. Is this good/bad?

4. The carbon / phospate removing media will be placed in the 'final' compartment. Is this okay?

5. Refugium area will be lit by a single Cree XRE Q5 LED. Is this sufficient or do I need to get more?

[Gannet]

have you throught what will happen when you turn / lose power to the tank?? depended on how you have your over flow and return set up depends on how much syphon back you will get,

you need to make sure that there is enough room in the sump to take this extra water

[suphew]

In a sump that small I wouldn't worry about dividers etc, there main use is to stop microbubbles.

[breakaway]

have you throught what will happen when you turn / lose power to the tank?? depended on how you have your over flow and return set up depends on how much syphon back you will get,

you need to make sure that there is enough room in the sump to take this extra water

Yeah - since it's an overflow based system, the pump controls the flow through the system, so if the pump stops the water will stop overflowing.

In a sump that small I wouldn't worry about dividers etc, there main use is to stop microbubbles.

Ah I see, will forgo the dividers then. Just wanted to keep it all nice and neat. Anyway - are you able to help with the rest of my questions?

1. Is this setup going to be quiet? The display tank will be drilled with overflow box and I will plumb it with PVC pipes. If not, how do I make it quiet?

2. The sump will be lit by a single Cree XRE Q5 LED. Is this sufficient or do I need to get more?

[Gannet]

not so true.

all sumps are pump driven, mine in cluded.

when i turn my pump off i lose about 2 cm from the display tank and my sump rises up by around 5 cm as its smaller

[breakaway]

Ah okay - thanks for the heads up Gannet, will test it extensively (on the deck ) before putting it into service.

Another thing about overflow setups (the main tank is going to be drilled with an overflow box, and then pumbed with PVC down to the sump). Is this setup going to be quiet or generate some gurgling noise? If it's going to gurgle, how to make it quiet?

[puttputt]

Google durso standpipes, also look a full siphon standpipes, or adjustable full siphons.

Not sure if this is ok but on on another local marine site, there is a article on adjustble Craig standpipes - they are great, but dursos are also time proven and quiet.

If you have a backup pipe, go full siphon - they are the bees kness, imo.

[Zev]

You can post the link, puttputt - we won't bite you

[Navarre]

or you could pump water up to the sump and let gravity bring it back to the tank?

[puttputt]

You can post the link, puttputt - we won't bite you

Easier said than done 8) , suphew can prob do it though.

[Zev]

That would be this one - but you have to subscribe to see it...

http://www.nzmas.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2915

[breakaway]

or you could pump water up to the sump and let gravity bring it back to the tank?

Not really an option as I want it to look real neat and fit into the cabinet and all that jazz - this is why my sump is pretty small

I'm now trying to figure out ways to keep the overflow quiet. My original plan was to drill the tank up high and then install an overflow box and then a PVC pipe to drain to the sump but I suppose that wouldn't be quiet at all now would it?

That would be this one - but you have to subscribe to see it...

http://www.nzmas.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2915

Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum.

Click here to select a group to join. You will need to pay a subscription fee.

Pff, forget it. Google's already found me what I need. However the guys that use durso pipes have overflow compartments integrated into their tanks. I can't really implement that because space in my tank is at a premium. Can this durso setup be somehow scaled for use with an overflow box?

[puttputt]

pff, google it then. The pipes on the link are adjustable full siphons, and yes dursos can be scaled - pff.

[suphew]

You can also run an external durso, in which case you only need an elbow in your tank. The down side to this is you might loose more water out of your display when the power goes out.

Have a look in the durso web site it has plans for external dursos

http://dursostandpipes.com/

[breakaway]

Came up with this after couple mins of searching:

Can you use this with this internal overflow box like this one

Or is it simply not necessary?

[suphew]

The overflow box is a good idea because it will take water from the surface where most of the proteins are. BTW the 'durso' design you have there is incorrect and wont work correctly. You need to have the elbow in the overflow box so it doesn't suck air in, otherwise it will sound like water going down a bath drain. You also need to have a restriction in the pipe on the outside. You need to follow the plans on the Durso website, there are lots of incorrect methods floating round.

[Morcs]

Those durso overflows are what I have on my work tanks. they work ok, but personally not a huge fan as the intake is quite high, meaning stuff near the bottom doesnt get sucked in effectively.

[breakaway]

Alright. After all this research I'm considering getting a proper overflow designed for the corner of the tank and drilling 2 holes down low and having 2 pipes to drain to sump. This way I can have a proper durso setup with the minimum amount of hassle

[puttputt]

:bounce:

[suphew]

Those durso overflows are what I have on my work tanks. they work ok, but personally not a huge fan as the intake is quite high, meaning stuff near the bottom doesnt get sucked in effectively.

In a fresh water tank ideally you want to take water from the bottom of the tank, but in a saltwater you want to take the water from the top. Proteins tend to go to the water surface, which is why a protein skimmer works, proteins going to the surface of the bubbles.

[breakaway]

How well would this setup work? Have access to a laser cutting / CNC routing machine via a friend now, and considering getting a scaled down version of this made:

Obviously scaled down to fit a 40L tank.

[suphew]

Weir's work fine, they have some limits but so long as you work with-in these your wont have any problems.