chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 friction is the word he used but yeah, he meant bends and elbows etc i still think an ocean runner is a good high-throughput pump (from what i've read) perhaps the ocean runner "love daddy" 6500 (1,400gallons/hr or 6,500 litres per hour) would be the go. the only reason i want it submersible is so i dont have to add a hole to the bottom of the 3 foot sump for an Iwaki to plumb up too. If it comes to it, its not a major though... Does anyone have any links to sites where it actually states how much heat dissipation a typical pump like this produces or information on effects of water temperature from high output, submersible pumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 friction is the correct word. Pumps will come with a wattage rating. I'd guesstimate a water pump (mag drive), taking into account head etc would be around 40-30% efficient, so if you've got a 100watt submersible pump, it's like having a always on 60-70Watt heater. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Friction is not the right word, resistance maybee. Iwaki/Grunfos (sp) have a reputation is the aquirum trade for being able to shift large volumes of water at increased head, something that hobby pumps are not able to do as efficiently. I have no experance with the OR pumps, and people use them a lot of UR for closed loops and sump returns for under cabinet sumps. Not sure that many (not many if any) people use these style of pumps in remote sumps. You don't need to drill a hole to run external pumps, but they will work better if not 'sucking' from the inlet, but you can run them inline by dragging the water up. I have read that this causes cavitations (and thus air bubbles in the water stream) but have not experanced this my self. Big PUMPS! Pieump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Friction IS the correct word, though not commonly used in this context. When you have an elbow joint for example, the friction is greater when the water hits the opposite side of the joint, and is forced to change direction. Friction is a function of the perpendicular force between two surfaces (ie: surface of the water and the elbow), so with the water hitting at a greater velocity, the friction is greater, and the pump has to work harder, or the flow is reduced. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 that was my only reason for choosing the OR as i didnt think the Iwaki could suck. If it can (only needs to be about 500mm up) then I'll use that instead (reliability and power are my preferences!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Layton - no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 The bend increases the pressure but not because of friction, its got little to do with the water rubbing against the walls of the pipe. If it was a 'closed loop' pump (pump gets equal pressure from the intake as oposed to working against gravity in a sump return) the number of bends and elbows doesn't make any difference to the water flow at all, friction is the only factor that slows things down. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 yes elbows etc can increase the hydrostatic pressure, which also reduces flow. But friction also comes into it. I think you will find that the flow in a closed loop will reduce when you add more and more elbows into the plumbing, due to friction. Elbows / bends reduce flow due to friction. They may also reduce flow by increasing hydrostatic pressure, but they may not, it all depends on the configuration. One thing is for sure, they will ALWAYS reduce flow due to friction. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Don't dissagree with that one iota (eye oat ahhh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 glad we got that sorted Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 suck blow whats the diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Steve - If you don't know, you'll never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 ok, so the underlying question I had before was how much (what distance) can an Iwaki suck?! If I get one, I'll obviously mount it as close to the sump as possible but it still has to suck the height of the tank before it pushes water up about 2 metres or so. Do these pumps have any spec's to indicate an approximate mounting position/how much they suck? (dont take that wording the wrong way ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Mine was sucking up about 600mm but it could easliy suck more, the only thing is that it must be 'wet' to start, it can't self prime. Easy to do. Since your starting out though, drill it. Easier and safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 if theres a power cut i'll have to prime it so i think drilling is the way to go. have to book some overtime at work now to get more dosh for the pump... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 if the power go's out the pump will stay primed, a bit like a closed loop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 only if the pump is physically lower than the water level in the sump. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 i was hoping that would be without saying :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 just as easy to drill a hole i think!... another question: where's the best place to get the piping (hansen?) that goes either side of the newly drilled hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 mico wakefield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 cool, ta. just wont be going to mico in whangaparoa their service is A1 sh1t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 I buy my plumbing from Mico, their service is A1 shite down here too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 plumbing world in constellation is a good one , good selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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