natscat Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Hi all I have been keeping freshwater tanks for a while now and im dead keen on changing over to salt and ive got a few questions. At the moment i have a tank with tropicals in it and was woundering if i could just take out the fish, gravel, plants etc and throw in the salt and let it run for a while and then add LR and fish etc. What sort of equipment will i need apart from a protein skimmer and chiller later on if i get any corals. What sort of lights do you think i will need? Would the tank need to cycle again, if so for how long. Thanks in advance. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 What size tank are you planning? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natscat Posted July 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Its a 6x2x21/2 with a 3' sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 personally i'd ditch the water in there and put new RO water in + salt (or NSW) let that cycle for a while. for that size, i reckon budget on around $7K (includes rock and fish) dont forget metal hallides plus some blue actinic's (ask pies, he's just worked out this for his new tank - i would guess 3 x 250W 10k M/H's) heaps of other things for consideration (streams, closed loops, return pump for sump, refractometer, test kits etc etc. all add's up as im finding out!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natscat Posted July 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Can i use compact flouros say two doubles say about 360W or is that not enough. Can i ask why the budget is around $7K, the tank is actually running at the moment. I dont have any RO equipment so what is the next best thing. How much rock do you think will do, is it around 20% of the water volume. Thanks for the info Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Depends how close are you to the ocean? Natural seawater & rock must be easy to get in aussie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 If ya not at Ayers Stone (Dingo country) Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Although the tank may already be running, it is a freshwater system. You will have to remove all water, gravel etc. So basically all you have for a marine setup is a tank and sump at the moment. And believe me the actual tank is the least expensive part of the hobby. For a start, I assume you use canister filters for your fw setup? These can problematic in a saltwater setup. If they are used, they are generally used to hold carbon or phosphate removers, defiantly NOT as a means of mechanical filtration. So filtration you will need a skimmer, $1000 new (minimum). Live rock, probably around 200Kg, don't know how much this is in aussie, but here it is $13/kg = $2600 Live rock is THE most important part of filtration. The more you have the more fish you can keep. Coral sand maybe $100. Test kits $130 Chiller $1000 (probably more) Power heads / closed loops $800 Lighting depends on what you want to keep: Full stoney reef 5 x 250W MH = $1200 Reef 3 x 250W MH = $720 Fish only = $0 (existing lighting) so thats $5630 for a basic fish only system to $6830 for a very basic full reef system, before you have any fish or corals. So if anything the $7000 budget is a little low. There will be a long cycling time, much longer than freshwater. Unlike freshwater, this cycling time is necessary. If you try to add live stock when the tank has not cycled, it will die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Well said Layton, completely agree. Nick - since you're in Aussie, your best bet for good product and very good service is Natalie at Reefonline, http://www.reefonline.com.au/ tank is (generally) considered fully cycled when there are no detectable traces of ammonia and nitrite. test for several days apart as these levels can change. ummm,.... read this: http://www.reefcentral.com/FAQ/general/index.php (better be careful, i might get blamed for posting 'old news') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natscat Posted July 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Hey guys Im actually using the sump for filtration but have used canisters in the past. I LR is about $10/kilo straight from the diver. Whats a full stoney reef? I have read that it can take up to six months to fully cycle a tank and to get it stablized what is your guys views. Thanks for the links Chimera. I do want to keep a full reef including fish. What about calcium reactors, RO and DIs would i need them straight away because i would set up the LR and other equipment now, so down the track i can keep soft corals, mushrooms, clams, sponges etc. Thanks alot Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 By full stoney reef, I mean a reef with small polyp stoney (sps) corals, in particular acropora species (may include LPS, and soft corals). Tanks usually don't take 6 months to cycle as such, more like 2. However it may take the tank 6 months or more, to mature to the point where you may introduce more diffucult species, such as sps corals. Calcium reactors are not a requirement, I don't have one, it just means that you have to add kalkwasser almost continuously. A calcuim reactor automates this process. RO/DI is a requirement. You will have many problems if your water is not top quality. What do you mean by using the sump as filtration? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natscat Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hey Layton Oh ok, yeah maybe down the track but im just going to start off slow and build it up from there but....i did want to get all the correct gear in now so i dont have too worry about it later if you know what i mean. I think i might go for a 4" layer of live sand, which i can pick up for $3.50 a kilo and ive been told that about 60 kilo of LR will be enough. Can i use lava rock as base rock? What else can i use? The wet/dry was mechanically and biologically filtering the water in the freshwater tank but doesnt the sand and LR do most of the filtering in SW tanks, so basically the sump is just for equipment such as heaters, skimmers etc to sit in and how far does the wet/dry go in the way of filtration is concerned. Thanks heaps guys Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 yeah, git rid of the wet/dry, unless you want to clean it EVERY week to make sure that no biological filtration is taking place. Use a skimmer and live rock as the filtration (live sand as well if you want, but it is debatable). The idea is to slow the conversion of wastes to nitrate, so that the skimmer can remove it. While at the same time have the reduction of nitrate (which happens at a particular "depth" from the surface of live rock) occuring as fast as possible. The wet dry filter, if not cleaned at least weekly will become biological filtration, speeding up the conversion of wastes to nitrate (they are sometimes refered to as "nirtate factories"), this is not desirable in a reef tank. Stay away from lava rock, there are all sorts of minerals which may leach and adversely affect water quality. Dead coral is used as live rock. It is carbonate based and has many tiny pores in which nirate reduction takes place. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natscat Posted July 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Could i maybe modify the wet/dry to be more efficient and dependable such as removing the bio-cubes and filter media and replace with sand or LR, because i have read also that they are nitrate magnets. So what do you use for filtration apart from LR and sand? Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Skimmer Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Do yourself a favour and sell the wet/dry filtration and use the money towards a good skimmer. You did say you wanted to do it slowly and properly? I am in a dilema right now with my Deltec 1060 skimmer which is rated to 1,000 litres. I am considering selling it and upgrading to a larger skimmer for my new tank... more $$$... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natscat Posted July 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Will do thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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