DubbieBoy Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Hi Guys, Quelle désastre; I've had a horrible white-spot outbreak. This tank had been going so well too but then I brought in five platies and BOOMPH, white spot city. I know there's been a recent thread on this subject but I thought I'd seek some reassurance that I'm going about getting rid of this scourge correctly (and permanently). The tank is a two-foot cube (216l), heavily planted, ammonia (and presumably nitrites) is zero. Occupants include(d) 8 barbs, 15 cardinal tetras, 2 bristlenose cats, 5 platies and 2 rams. The platies, which I'm sure brought the bug in with them, are ironically the healthiest fish in there at the moment, the parasite has knocked off three barbs and one of the tetras and a couple of the other barbs and tetras are looking borderline at the moment. I initiated treatment at the weekend with Melafix, as seemed to be a popular recommendation within this group although it is described as anti-bacterial and anti-fungal and I'm not sure what effect its likely to have on parasites but it should at least prevent secondary infections setting in when the parasites have dropped off (smells nice tho...). I'm also treating with the generic ick-cure combo of malachite green and formaldehyde ('Spot-Off' from Masterpet, the only thing I could find at the LFS; who thinks up these names...!). I wanted to avoid methylene blue as I'd rather not stain the silicone if I can avoid it. I have increased the tank temp to 28 and introduced some intense aeration as those fish which have died seemed to have suffocated, presumably because the parasite has been destroying gill tissue? There's still a lot of heavy, laboured breathing going on but only with the affected fish. I'm a bit concerned about the plants as the tank is quite densely planted and they had been doing really well. I can't see the meds doing them a whole lot of good but hopefully this incident won't knock them back too much. So there you go, I'm not sure what else I can do other than continue treatment for another 10 days or so and then do serial water changes for a few days to try and dilute out the chemicals. I was astonished at how quickly this problem developed and also how quickly really healthy looking fish lost condition and keeled over. I hope we're over the worst of it now and shouldn't have any more losses but I'm thinking it will take lots of TLC to get the survivors back into shape. Maybe some frozen bloodworm will perk them up a bit ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Dubbie, now you know why we suggest having a quarantine tank to put new arrivals into. Ideal for breeding too between buying newbies. How often do we hear that we just bought these fish, now we have a whitespot outbreak. To put in a few dollars worth of fish into a tank that could possibly hold 100's$$ worth of fish is bordering on, well, you know what I mean. It's also easier treating a small q tank than a main tank, planted out with expensive plants, and having fish in it as well that areallergic to the w/s treatment. You didn't say how big the tank of yours is and what fish you have in it Dubbie. Sorry about the white-spot, but I bet there aren't many in this group that hasn't experienced it. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Dubbie, please ingnore the part about the size and fish. Humbly apologizes Just re-read your post. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbieBoy Posted March 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hi Alan, I agree absolutely with what you say, I would love to have the luxury of a quarantine tank and am now paying the penalty for taking the gamble - nine times out of ten it would probably be ok but inevitably... Although I've kept fish for years, I've never actually experienced a w/s outbreak before; I guess I got complacent. I've learnt my lesson though, when I get this bout cleared it'll certainly be some time before I introduce anything else. I shall have to look into getting a small tank for quarantine purposes; even though there's not a large number of expensive fish in the main tank, its just not worth the trauma! As main tanks get built up over time, it may be that a quarantine tank becomes less of a luxury and more of a necessity. Anyway, in the here and now, its a damage limitation exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hi Dubbie, Once it gets you there are no shortcuts to getting rid of it, as it has to run through its life cycle, and is only vunerable at ONE stage, and that is once it has left the fish and is about to open and multiply. The thing is, that the parasites won't all leave the fish in one hit, so you have to work in conjuntion with the progress of the ich cycle. Double medicating with two types of meds is a big mistake, as one can counteract the other, however, what you need to do now is keep the temp up, as this speeds the cycle up, and once the parasites begin to drop from the fish they will need removing from the gravel with a syphon. Do this each day over the treatment period, which could take ten days. Use only the correct med for W/S as per the instructions. Keep the aeration going and remove any fatalities as soon as poss. You don't say what type of Barbs they are, or the size, but if your tank is a two foot you could have a prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbieBoy Posted March 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hi Pegasus, I'm pretty sure there shouldn't be any contra-indications using Melafix (tea-tree oil) and a generic w/s medication as the makers of Melafix, aquarium pharmaceuticals, also sell a malachite green/formaldehyde w/s mix and do state in their Melafix flyer that these may be used together. The two meds target different things but I guess you're right in that the combined load on the system might be enough to at least knock out the filter bugs. The barbs are a mix of tigers and green-tigers (these are lovely fish) still pretty small (maybe 3cm), so far one tiger and two green-tigers have karked it. Are barbs particularly sensitive to w/s? I would have expected the tetras to go belly-up first but they seem to be slugging it out well even though they have lots of spots. The tank is 2x2x2ft so there's quite a bit of volume there; makes it more expensive to dose tho. Another advantage of having a small quarantine tank i suppose, you'd only have to buy one bottle of medication! I'm not looking forward to going home this evening and looking for corpses; I'll keep ye posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 As you possibly know, I never use meds, or any additives really, so I can't really comment on the Metafix. Usually if W/S is about, most fish in the tank will get it, but the Tetras normally seem to be first in line Often it is not the fish from the store that are transmitting the disease, and may be just the addition of the new fish caused enough upset to start the outbreak. Then again it "could" be the fish from the store that were perhaps in fine healthy condition, but due to stress of some sort have contracted the W/S and so spread it about the tank. They say that W/S is always present in a tank, and all it needs is one fish to become rundown or scared to allow the parasite to attack. Hope you sort things out with no more losses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbieBoy Posted March 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Things are looking a bit better today I think. Another barb and two of the tetras gave up the ghost last night but the survivors are looking a lot perkier and the spots are starting to disappear and heal up. Would it be a good idea to do some water changes during the course of the treatment or should I wait until the meds have finished doing their job in a week or so? The med says to dose on days 1, 3, 6, 8 and 10, I'm on day 5 today so perhaps a water change tonight before the next dose goes in tomorrow? If as you suggest w/s is always lurking at low-levels in every tank, waiting for a distressed or rundown fish to allow a resurgence, does this suggest that its pointless placing newcomers into a quarantine tank on arrival if the stress of quarantining itself and subsequent removal to a main tank is only going to further stress new fish and make them a target for parasites that are already present anyway and impossible to eliminate completely? Have people experienced spontaneous eruptions of w/s in an otherwise stable tank which hasn't had any new fish introduced? Thanks for the input fellahs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 As Peg. says, syphon off the bottom to help cut down the developing cysts. This removal of water, and the replacement of it, will "water-down" your medications. Do a little maths to bring the dosage back up. Don't forget to carry on the treatment for ten days after the last white spots are visible on the fish. This may be the one cyst that gets to the bottom, goes thru it's next phase, and sends more of the little buggers out to attack the fish, thereby carrying on the infestation. Goodluck in your fight to combat this problem. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Hi Dubbie, As Alan says.. do the siphoning to remove the cysts that will EXPLODE into MILLIONS more The quarantine situation. The therory behind the quarantine is that you can adapt the fish to "your" conditions.. your water and param's.. During this time you can fully observe the new arrivals, and many aquarists include a couple of "sacraficial" fish from their established stocks to see if "they" get affected by the new arrivals. This is done in preference to infecting the whole tank. Quarantine means just that.... Complete Isolation... Great care should be taken with nets and equipment so that nothing can be tranfered from the "Q" tank to your established tanks. I never tip the "shop water" into my tanks, but always net the fish out of the bag, although even a single drop of water can tranfer some nasty or other... even on plants, or snails.. or... he he. You get the picture. Like humans... fish can be "carriers" but show no sign of illness, so nine times out of ten the sacrificial fish will show the probs first if there is anything ammiss. BTW: Never use meds on the "Just in case" policy. You'll finish up with a cocktail of soup in your tank. Alway "fully" diagnose the prob before medicating, and if poss use natural methods. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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